Re: P4C800ED with 4 gig RAM

In article <dvmblh$6u1$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, GinTonix@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Paul wrote:
In article <441dff5d$0$16329$892e7fe2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
"peterf" <peterf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Paul, you are AWESOME! This is about the second or third time I've
posted a

I totally agree on this one and that's why...

layers). Thanks again for all you do...

Peter


...I'm rudely borrowing this thread, it having Paul's attention O:-)
Peter might also be interested, being a happy P4C800-E Deluxe owner.

So, a little off-topic considering this thread, but Paul, do you know if
the USB latchup problem concerns the rev 2.0 of P4C800-E Deluxe as well
(or as badly, in this case) as the previous versions? And what are the
odds (an educated quess is accurate enough) to meet it? Should I totally
keep my sticky fingers and USB devices off the ports or are they
relatively safe to use?

I don't know if the USB latchup problem with ICH5/ICH5R is a
batch related problem, or affects all serial numbers. The
Gigabyte article is the only admission of a problem, and doesn't
say whether the motherboard design makes a difference or not.
On the one hand, Intel has a white paper, suggesting they have
pad technology capable of taking thousands of volts of ESD, and
yet this problem exists. I vaguely remember a new revision of
ICH6 was produced a while back, but have never seen a new revision
of ICH5/ICH5R. I thought all production of 865/875 and ICH5
would have stopped by now, but the other day, I saw a short article
claiming Intel was still making 865s, and that cannot be right.
It must have been a typo.

My suggestions are theory based, and are not recommendations coming
from any manufacturer. Using a USB2 PCI card, does mean that any
static discharge is seen by the PCI card, and not the motherboard,
and is the only effective defense I can see for the problem. People
have blown motherboards while using the rear USB ports, which tells
me the affected ICH5/ICH5R chips are _very_ sensitive to static.
(It is not just the 2x5 headers that are sensitive.) This phenomenon
could have an age-related aspect to it, so the more power-on-hours,
the more sensitive the chip gets. The failure reports you get
in a news group are not likely to suggest an answer.

I certainly don't have access to any wealth of data, and nobody from
Intel has "leaked" on the issue. So, all I can do, is note the
destruction when it happens, and suggest the PCI USB2 card as
one way to reduce the risk.

I have worked with devices having no static protection a couple of
times. One device was a design error, and a company made some
CMOS parts with no protection diodes. Even with full antistatic
precautions, 50% of the devices died while being handled. When
ESD protection is missing from a device, it is virtually impossible
to stop them from dying. The Intel parts aren't quite that bad,
but in terms of sensitivity, there is no lower limit if a CMOS
part is improperly designed.

I also had occasion to work with some small MOS transistors years
ago. The four legged transistor comes with a steel spring wrapped
around the pins, to protect it. (That keeps all the legs at a
common potential.) You solder the device to the PCB, and then pull
on the spring to remove it from around the legs. That
device can only take 30V before it dies. A well charged human
being, is capable of delivering 15000 volts with no problem.

It is actually surprising there are not more port failures on
computers. I've certainly seem my share of dead RS-232 ports.

Paul
.

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