Re: P2B-DS and generic slotkets


"P2B" <p2b@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Dxj4f.11066$vD4.618719@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Frank Galphin wrote:
>> "P2B" <p2b@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:xJ%3f.6840$S43.1114160@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>
>>>Frank Galphin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Paul" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:nospam-2809050108000001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article <rK6dnTKsOMzsKKTeRVn-ug@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Frank Galphin"
>>>>><fgalphin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Paul" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:nospam-2009050258060001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In article <YIedndI8cNDpoLLeRVn-gQ@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Frank Galphin"
>>>>>>><fgalphin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Stephan Grossklass" <sgrokla-nospam04q2@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:dgkejf$qsv$04$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Frank Galphin schrieb:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Hay all,
>>>>>>>>>> Well subject says it all. I have 2 PIII 850's which are not the
>>>>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>>>>stepping
>>>>>>>>>>value. I have 2 generic slotkets the are supposedly dual capable.
>>>>>>>>>>The
>>>>>>>>>>system
>>>>>>>>>>will boot with one of the 850's in slot 1 or slot 2. However when
>>>>>>>>>>both
>>>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>>>the system will not boot. The slockets are labeled "Cpu Card
>>>>>>>>>>Rev.1.0"
>>>>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>>>>ideas?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>"Dual capable" could also mean dual *Celeron* (Mendocino) capable,
>>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>>many slot adapters are. This does not imply that dual CuMines work
>>>>>>>>>as
>>>>>>>>>well. Sometimes this also requires changing jumper settings, like
>>>>>>>>>on
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>MSI 6905 Master. Both the dual capable 6905 Master and the S370-DL
>>>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>>>a 4-pin CPU selection jumper, which makes me suspect that this is a
>>>>>>>>>requirement for unmodded dual CuMine operation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Stephan
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>Home: http://stephan.win31.de/
>>>>>>>>>PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 250+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi Stephan,
>>>>>>>> Well I tried the PIII 450 slot 1 and a celeron 500 "Mendocino
>>>>>>>> core"
>>>>>>>>together using
>>>>>>>>the generic sloket and same as before would not boot in dual mode.
>>>>>>>>Any
>>>>>>>>other
>>>>>>>>ideas?
>>>>>>>>I know i need to find a Asus 370-dl slocket for really cheap. Then
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>might
>>>>>>>>work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Upgradeware Slot-T Conversion Kit $30 each
>>>>>>>http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/products/7/9/104/1048
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The Upgradeware web page:
>>>>>>>http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/slott/slott.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Modification procedure for making Slot-T (Tualatin) slocket
>>>>>>>dual processor ready (for PIII-S Pentium):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would try the adapter without the modification first.
>>>>>>>With your processors, the Slot-T may work without any mod.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>HTH,
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well I kinda got it working. The secret is the N33 pin as described
>>>>>>here.
>>>>>>http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/reviews/1673/4/
>>>>>>Both processors are working fine in Dual mode however,
>>>>>>the voltages are flaky. According to the hardware monitor the
>>>>>>processors are requesting 2.0 volts instead of 1.65 volts. I really
>>>>>>don't want to run these processors at 2.0 volts for to long. I don't
>>>>>>think they will last. What I don't understand about that article
>>>>>>is why is R3 being removed? What was it's purpose?
>>>>>>Again any hints suggestions welcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>"440bx design guide" - PDF pg.30
>>>>>http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/29063401.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>>"GTL+ is a low output swing, incident wave switching, open-drain
>>>>> bus with external pull-up resistors that provide both the high
>>>>> logic level and termination at the end of the bus."
>>>>>
>>>>>One purpose of the resistors, is to function as the load
>>>>>resistor and also as a transmission line termination, to
>>>>>reduce signal reflections. If R3 is a 56 ohm resistor, perhaps
>>>>>that is its purpose.
>>>>>
>>>>>A good technical article on modding, should explain what each
>>>>>of the modifications is doing, and what the old connectivity
>>>>>achieved before the modder cut it up. Such information makes
>>>>>it possible for a third party to check the workmanship of
>>>>>the modder, and interpret what he/she is doing. Since Mr. Sassen
>>>>>chose not to help us in that way, it is hard to say what he
>>>>>has done.
>>>>>
>>>>>For example, I don't understand why Mr. Sassen has connected
>>>>>a 56 ohm resistor to ground. It could be that this grounding
>>>>>resistor is physically underneath where R3 is located on
>>>>>the other side of the board. In other words, a signal used
>>>>>to have a 56 ohm resistor to Vtt, and now it has a leaded
>>>>>resistor connected to ground, on the other side of the board,
>>>>>as a modification. A 56 ohm resistor might make a good high
>>>>>speed termination for some kind of logic, but if the signal
>>>>>on that line is GTL+, a pullup resistor to Vtt makes a lot
>>>>>more sense.
>>>>>
>>>>>Without a schematic diagram or a block diagram of what he has
>>>>>done, I would need the module in my hands to figure out what
>>>>>has been done.
>>>>>
>>>>>With regard to the voltage being requested, use an ohmmeter
>>>>>to see if there is continuity from the VID pins in the socket,
>>>>>to the SC242 edge connector. It could be the slocket doesn't
>>>>>have them wired, or there is a DIP switch or something ? Are
>>>>>you sure the slocket doesn't have a way to modify the VID
>>>>>value ?
>>>>>
>>>>>This article describes how to do a "wire trick", in a situation
>>>>>where there is no DIP switch to set the Vcore voltage. When
>>>>>I needed to do a mod like this, I just cut the appropriate
>>>>>VID tracks near the edge connector, and wired the signals as
>>>>>required. (I modded a slocket that had no VID jumpers.)
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.tipperlinne.com/p2b-ds.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>Other info:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/440/documentation.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>(A dual processor 440BX motherboard schematic. This will not
>>>>>teach you much, as the real action is on the slocket. Still,
>>>>>this is one of the few reference schematics available for
>>>>>download.)
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/BXDPDG10.PDF
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well I got it working after a little effort. I ordered two of the
>>>>Upgradeware Slot-T adapters from Strattton computers. They were the
>>>>newer Version 1.1 adapters so
>>>>I did not need to relocate resistor R2 to R3 Position as described here:
>>>>http://tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm
>>>
>>>I haven't seen a v1.1 Slot-T yet. Did they add a jumper so you can select
>>>X2 or N33 for the bus request signal, or just omit R2 and install R3 to
>>>make N33 the factory default?
>>>
>>>I suppose I should order a pair, check them out, and update my site...
>>>
>>>
>>>>But let me tell you what I had to do to make those two PIII 850's
>>>>cooperate with each other. It turns out that one of the PIII 850's was
>>>>set to request 1.70 volts instead of 1.65 volts. Difference in stepping
>>>>I assume. So I set the Slot-T's to 1.65 volts for CPU 1 and 1.70 volts
>>>>for CPU 2. System booted and recognized two processors. I think YEAH!!!!
>>>>well that was short lived. I checked the hardware monitor and guess
>>>>what? They were requesting 2.0 volts. Boy was I confused. So just for
>>>>the hell of it I decided to set both Slot-T's to 1.65 volts. Well that
>>>>fixed the problem. The hardware monitor was reading 1.6 volts. YEAH
>>>>happiness. I guess the minor voltage difference was throwing off the
>>>>onboard voltage regulators. Well anyway like I said it is now working.
>>>
>>>Interesting!
>>>
>>>The two voltage regulators are quite independent, each controlled by the
>>>VID signals from their respective processors (or the VID jumper settings
>>>when running Slot-Ts), so there's no reason the processors cannot run at
>>>quite different voltages - and software like MBM will correctly report
>>>differing CPU voltages. The Slot-Ts in my main system have been set to
>>>1.35v and 1.40v for some time - the lowest stable settings - and MBM
>>>reports 1.37v and 1.41v respectively. Last time I checked with a meter,
>>>the actual voltages were about 100mV above what MBM reports. The BIOS
>>>displays 1.5v - it's not very accurate, and appears to round up in 0.5v
>>>increments.
>>>
>>>The BIOS only displays one CPU voltage. I would have expected that to be
>>>taken from one or other of the regulators - and your post prompted me to
>>>find out which one.
>>>
>>>I was wrong - testing proves the BIOS reports it's idea of the higher of
>>>the two Vcore voltages, regardless of which regulator is delivering it. I
>>>suppose reading both and displaying the higher one only took a few lines
>>>of code, but I was surprised. A few more lines and it could display both
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>I can think of three explanations for your observations when you had the
>>>Slot-Ts set differently:
>>>
>>>1. Upgradeware screwed up the VID jumpers on the v1.1 adapters (unlikely)
>>>2. The BIOS reported a 1.7v setting as 2.0v because the regulators always
>>>run a little higher than the VID request, and the BIOS rounds up (less
>>>unlikely)
>>>3. You accidentally set the jumpers on one adapter to a higher voltage
>>>than you intended (no offense intended, I've done it)
>>>
>>>It would be most interesting if you could reproduce the 2.0v BIOS reading
>>>when the adapters are set to 1.7 and 1.65, then see what MBM reports. I
>>>would be perplexed if it wasn't within 250mV of the jumper settings.
>>>
>>>BTW, if you aren't overclocking, those PIII 850's are likely to be
>>>perfectly happy (and a little cooler) running at the 1.55v setting.
>>>
>>>P2B
>>
>>
>> Hey P2B thanks for the response.
>>
>> Regarding the Ver 1.1 Slot T's there is no jumper setting to select
>> either X2 or N33. The layout
>> seems to be similiar to the picture posted on your site. Where you show
>> R2 there is a 56 Ohm resistor
>> and R3 is allready populated with a 0(zero) Ohm resistor. Wish I had a
>> digital camera to show you.
>
> No need, I get the picture :-)
>
>> Looks like N33 is selected by default!
>
> Indeed. The 56 Ohm X2 pullup is not required according to Intel
> datasheets, but it can't hurt.
>
> I don't suppose I'll be selling any more modded Slot-T adapters :-( It was
> a nice sideline for the 2+ years it took Upgradeware to adopt my fix.
>
>> Well I did verify that I did have the jumpers set right and they were (No
>> offense taken. I have done it too!)
>>
>> Well when I had the processors set to 1.65 volts for CPU 1 and 1.70 volts
>> for CPU 2 I went ahead
>> and booted into XP pro and used Everest at Home to look at the hardware
>> sensors. It was reporting
>> 2.00 volts and 2.05 volts respectfully for each CPU. So it seems as
>> though it's not the BIOS reporting
>> incorrect voltages unless Everest is pulling down the info from the
>> BIOS??. I thought it would poll the
>> Hardware sensor chip to get the info. Very confusing.
>
> Everest definitely gets it's data from the sensor chip, so this is very
> mysterious. When you set 1.65v on both adapters, Everest reports close to
> that, right?
>

Yes that is what everest is reporting around 1.63 vots.

> Do you have a meter to confirm the CPUs are really getting 2.0v with the
> 1.65/1.70 setting? Maybe the sensor chip is the problem - which one is it?
> It's between the end of the ISA slot and the BIOS chip - I expect to see a
> Winbond 83781D there. What revision is your P2B-DS? It must be at least
> 1.05 - and if it's one of the rare oddball 1.05s with mismatched
> regulators, perhaps the answer lies there...
>

*I do have a meter but am leary of using it. I don't want to short out
the test lead to an adjacent pin. Besides I am not sure whcih pin
to check.

> I think this is worth tracking down, because at this point I'm not sure
> I'd trust anything but a meter to tell me what voltage the CPUs are really
> getting, regardless of jumper settings.
>
>> I was going to overclock these to 952Mhz by setting 112 Mhz FSB and up
>> the voltages on the CPU's
>> to 1.75Volts. Should be stable I think.
>
> Most Coppermines will overclock at least 12% on default voltages. Don't
> give 'em more juice until they prove their need :-)
>

Left at 1.65 volts system would lock up with 112Mhz selected through SoftFSB
So I think I need a voltage boost.

>> Thanks for the input P2B. Much appreciated.
>> Any further questions please ask.
>
> Your problems seem to be solved, so perhaps you'd prefer to move on - but
> if you're interested in understanding anomalies encountered along the way,
> the comprehensive list of useful information would be:
>
> - Motherboard revision and PCBA level (the latter is a D0x number,
> sometimes printed somewhere on the component side, but often only on a
> sticker on the side of the last ISA connector - which requires a mirror to
> read after the board is installed)
> - Regulator chip IDs (should be HIP6004xx[x] and HIP6019xx[x])
> - Sensor chip ID (see above)
> - CPU sSpecs (Sxxxx, printed on the CPUs)
> - Meter readings for Vcore when BIOS shows 2.0v, and again when it reads
> 1.6v
>
Motherboard is a Rev 1.06 PCBA Level D03 latest and greatest I heard!
Regulator chips: HIP6004BCB and HIP6019BCB
Sensor chip: ASUS AS97127F
CPU sSpecs: CPU 1 SL43H CPU 2 SL4CC
*See answer above

> I'm seriously considering ordering a pair of v1.1 Slot-Ts to play with,
> and I have a few spare P3 933s I haven't gotten around to selling - maybe
> I can reproduce the anomaly.
>
> P2B

Again thanks for the input P2B. Hope that answers your questions. As befor
any further questions please ask.

Frank


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