Re: P2B-DS and generic slotkets
- From: "Frank Galphin" <fgalphin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 13:30:35 -0400
"P2B" <p2b@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:xJ%3f.6840$S43.1114160@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Frank Galphin wrote:
>
>> "Paul" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> news:nospam-2809050108000001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>>In article <rK6dnTKsOMzsKKTeRVn-ug@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Frank Galphin"
>>><fgalphin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Paul" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>news:nospam-2009050258060001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>>In article <YIedndI8cNDpoLLeRVn-gQ@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Frank Galphin"
>>>>><fgalphin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Stephan Grossklass" <sgrokla-nospam04q2@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:dgkejf$qsv$04$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Frank Galphin schrieb:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hay all,
>>>>>>>> Well subject says it all. I have 2 PIII 850's which are not the
>>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>>stepping
>>>>>>>>value. I have 2 generic slotkets the are supposedly dual capable.
>>>>>>>>The
>>>>>>>>system
>>>>>>>>will boot with one of the 850's in slot 1 or slot 2. However when
>>>>>>>>both
>>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>>installed
>>>>>>>>the system will not boot. The slockets are labeled "Cpu Card
>>>>>>>>Rev.1.0"
>>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>>ideas?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Dual capable" could also mean dual *Celeron* (Mendocino) capable,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>many slot adapters are. This does not imply that dual CuMines work as
>>>>>>>well. Sometimes this also requires changing jumper settings, like on
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>MSI 6905 Master. Both the dual capable 6905 Master and the S370-DL
>>>>>>>have
>>>>>>>a 4-pin CPU selection jumper, which makes me suspect that this is a
>>>>>>>requirement for unmodded dual CuMine operation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Stephan
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Home: http://stephan.win31.de/
>>>>>>>PC#6: i440BX, 2xP3-500E, 704 MiB, 250+80 GB, R9k AGP 64 MiB, 110W
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi Stephan,
>>>>>> Well I tried the PIII 450 slot 1 and a celeron 500 "Mendocino
>>>>>> core"
>>>>>>together using
>>>>>>the generic sloket and same as before would not boot in dual mode. Any
>>>>>>other
>>>>>>ideas?
>>>>>>I know i need to find a Asus 370-dl slocket for really cheap. Then it
>>>>>>might
>>>>>>work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>Upgradeware Slot-T Conversion Kit $30 each
>>>>>http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/products/7/9/104/1048
>>>>>
>>>>>The Upgradeware web page:
>>>>>http://www.upgradeware.com/english/product/slott/slott.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>Modification procedure for making Slot-T (Tualatin) slocket
>>>>>dual processor ready (for PIII-S Pentium):
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>I would try the adapter without the modification first.
>>>>>With your processors, the Slot-T may work without any mod.
>>>>>
>>>>>HTH,
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well I kinda got it working. The secret is the N33 pin as described
>>>>here.
>>>>http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/reviews/1673/4/
>>>>Both processors are working fine in Dual mode however,
>>>>the voltages are flaky. According to the hardware monitor the
>>>>processors are requesting 2.0 volts instead of 1.65 volts. I really
>>>>don't want to run these processors at 2.0 volts for to long. I don't
>>>>think they will last. What I don't understand about that article
>>>>is why is R3 being removed? What was it's purpose?
>>>>Again any hints suggestions welcome.
>>>>
>>>>Frank
>>>
>>>"440bx design guide" - PDF pg.30
>>>http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/29063401.pdf
>>>
>>> "GTL+ is a low output swing, incident wave switching, open-drain
>>> bus with external pull-up resistors that provide both the high
>>> logic level and termination at the end of the bus."
>>>
>>>One purpose of the resistors, is to function as the load
>>>resistor and also as a transmission line termination, to
>>>reduce signal reflections. If R3 is a 56 ohm resistor, perhaps
>>>that is its purpose.
>>>
>>>A good technical article on modding, should explain what each
>>>of the modifications is doing, and what the old connectivity
>>>achieved before the modder cut it up. Such information makes
>>>it possible for a third party to check the workmanship of
>>>the modder, and interpret what he/she is doing. Since Mr. Sassen
>>>chose not to help us in that way, it is hard to say what he
>>>has done.
>>>
>>>For example, I don't understand why Mr. Sassen has connected
>>>a 56 ohm resistor to ground. It could be that this grounding
>>>resistor is physically underneath where R3 is located on
>>>the other side of the board. In other words, a signal used
>>>to have a 56 ohm resistor to Vtt, and now it has a leaded
>>>resistor connected to ground, on the other side of the board,
>>>as a modification. A 56 ohm resistor might make a good high
>>>speed termination for some kind of logic, but if the signal
>>>on that line is GTL+, a pullup resistor to Vtt makes a lot
>>>more sense.
>>>
>>>Without a schematic diagram or a block diagram of what he has
>>>done, I would need the module in my hands to figure out what
>>>has been done.
>>>
>>>With regard to the voltage being requested, use an ohmmeter
>>>to see if there is continuity from the VID pins in the socket,
>>>to the SC242 edge connector. It could be the slocket doesn't
>>>have them wired, or there is a DIP switch or something ? Are
>>>you sure the slocket doesn't have a way to modify the VID
>>>value ?
>>>
>>>This article describes how to do a "wire trick", in a situation
>>>where there is no DIP switch to set the Vcore voltage. When
>>>I needed to do a mod like this, I just cut the appropriate
>>>VID tracks near the edge connector, and wired the signals as
>>>required. (I modded a slocket that had no VID jumpers.)
>>>
>>>http://www.tipperlinne.com/p2b-ds.htm
>>>
>>>Other info:
>>>
>>>http://developer.intel.com/design/chipsets/440/documentation.htm
>>>
>>>(A dual processor 440BX motherboard schematic. This will not
>>>teach you much, as the real action is on the slocket. Still,
>>>this is one of the few reference schematics available for
>>>download.)
>>>
>>>http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/designex/BXDPDG10.PDF
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>>
>> Well I got it working after a little effort. I ordered two of the
>> Upgradeware Slot-T adapters from Strattton computers. They were the newer
>> Version 1.1 adapters so
>> I did not need to relocate resistor R2 to R3 Position as described here:
>> http://tipperlinne.com/slot-t.htm
>
> I haven't seen a v1.1 Slot-T yet. Did they add a jumper so you can select
> X2 or N33 for the bus request signal, or just omit R2 and install R3 to
> make N33 the factory default?
>
> I suppose I should order a pair, check them out, and update my site...
>
>> But let me tell you what I had to do to make those two PIII 850's
>> cooperate with each other. It turns out that one of the PIII 850's was
>> set to request 1.70 volts instead of 1.65 volts. Difference in stepping I
>> assume. So I set the Slot-T's to 1.65 volts for CPU 1 and 1.70 volts for
>> CPU 2. System booted and recognized two processors. I think YEAH!!!! well
>> that was short lived. I checked the hardware monitor and guess what? They
>> were requesting 2.0 volts. Boy was I confused. So just for the hell of it
>> I decided to set both Slot-T's to 1.65 volts. Well that fixed the
>> problem. The hardware monitor was reading 1.6 volts. YEAH happiness. I
>> guess the minor voltage difference was throwing off the onboard voltage
>> regulators. Well anyway like I said it is now working.
>
> Interesting!
>
> The two voltage regulators are quite independent, each controlled by the
> VID signals from their respective processors (or the VID jumper settings
> when running Slot-Ts), so there's no reason the processors cannot run at
> quite different voltages - and software like MBM will correctly report
> differing CPU voltages. The Slot-Ts in my main system have been set to
> 1.35v and 1.40v for some time - the lowest stable settings - and MBM
> reports 1.37v and 1.41v respectively. Last time I checked with a meter,
> the actual voltages were about 100mV above what MBM reports. The BIOS
> displays 1.5v - it's not very accurate, and appears to round up in 0.5v
> increments.
>
> The BIOS only displays one CPU voltage. I would have expected that to be
> taken from one or other of the regulators - and your post prompted me to
> find out which one.
>
> I was wrong - testing proves the BIOS reports it's idea of the higher of
> the two Vcore voltages, regardless of which regulator is delivering it. I
> suppose reading both and displaying the higher one only took a few lines
> of code, but I was surprised. A few more lines and it could display both
> :-)
>
> I can think of three explanations for your observations when you had the
> Slot-Ts set differently:
>
> 1. Upgradeware screwed up the VID jumpers on the v1.1 adapters (unlikely)
> 2. The BIOS reported a 1.7v setting as 2.0v because the regulators always
> run a little higher than the VID request, and the BIOS rounds up (less
> unlikely)
> 3. You accidentally set the jumpers on one adapter to a higher voltage
> than you intended (no offense intended, I've done it)
>
> It would be most interesting if you could reproduce the 2.0v BIOS reading
> when the adapters are set to 1.7 and 1.65, then see what MBM reports. I
> would be perplexed if it wasn't within 250mV of the jumper settings.
>
> BTW, if you aren't overclocking, those PIII 850's are likely to be
> perfectly happy (and a little cooler) running at the 1.55v setting.
>
> P2B
Hey P2B thanks for the response.
Regarding the Ver 1.1 Slot T's there is no jumper setting to select either
X2 or N33. The layout
seems to be similiar to the picture posted on your site. Where you show R2
there is a 56 Ohm resistor
and R3 is allready populated with a 0(zero) Ohm resistor. Wish I had a
digital camera to show you.
Looks like N33 is selected by default!
Well I did verify that I did have the jumpers set right and they were (No
offense taken. I have done it too!)
Well when I had the processors set to 1.65 volts for CPU 1 and 1.70 volts
for CPU 2 I went ahead
and booted into XP pro and used Everest at Home to look at the hardware
sensors. It was reporting
2.00 volts and 2.05 volts respectfully for each CPU. So it seems as though
it's not the BIOS reporting
incorrect voltages unless Everest is pulling down the info from the BIOS??.
I thought it would poll the
Hardware sensor chip to get the info. Very confusing.
I was going to overclock these to 952Mhz by setting 112 Mhz FSB and up the
voltages on the CPU's
to 1.75Volts. Should be stable I think.
Thanks for the input P2B. Much appreciated.
Any further questions please ask.
Frank Galphin
.
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