Re: UPS Advice

Don wrote:


"Dave" <noway1@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:h07kuq$age$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Don" <don.meng@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:78op6nF1n60etU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I just got my PC back from the repair shop. The power supply went and the
technician said that it was probably because the machine was subjected to
many periods of low voltage. He suggested I get a UPS with automatic
voltage regulation. I'm looking for something in the $80 - $100 range.
I'm
more interested in the AVR function than running my machine in a blackout
and power outages aren't as much of an issue. Can anyone recommend
something? I saw that Best Buy has their GeekSquad G875U on sale and I
was
wondering if it was worth getting. Or should I look at other brands, i.e.
CyberPower, Belkin, or APC. Any thoughts?


You'd be better off just buying a good surge suppressor. Trying to extend
the life of a power supply with a UPS system is like buying a new house just
to store your motorcycle in, because the garage you already own isn't
heated. It's a huge waste of money with no measurable benefit.

First problem, you won't find anything decent for less than $200. You could
buy two or three decent power supplies for that price, if you shop
carefully. Second problem is, the batteries won't last as long as a decent
power supply will.

You'll probably end up spending many hundreds of dollars on UPS units over
the next decade. (because it will be cheaper to buy new than replace
batteries) Or, you can buy a power supply or two. Your choice, I know
where I'd spend my money though. -Dave


I was wondering about that. I now have a good quality 550 watt power supply whereas the one that failed was 350 watts. But despite it's lower power output, it was no Wal-Mart special. Would having a larger capacity power supply last longer under the conditions described in this post? I don't think this voltage issue is going to last for ever. This community has undergone a lot of growth in the past couple of years and the electric utility probably hasn't been able to keep up with needed infrastructure improvements.

I waited a while before posting on this, glad I did. (I was also waiting to see if the infamous electricity lunatic "westom" would pop up.. so far not!)

Speaking of him,
http://www.google.com/groups?q=westom&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
It's a hoot to follow the threads he tries to take over with his screedy k00k thoughts.
His latest incarnation is <westom1@xxxxxxxxx>
You may want to call me a k00k after reading this though, I'm home on temp disability from shoulder surgery and bored. I'm too old to drag miles of CAT6 and coax, climb up towers/down in vaults, or crawl on top of truck cabs installing antennas. Making long rambling and maybe boring posts keeps me "occupied".


First caveat:
PC repair technicians (as well as most "systems analysts" or "IT professionals") aren't usually well-versed in either electricity or electronics. They don't really have to be, PCs are pretty much "remove and replace the part" for hardware repairs, and there's no hazardous voltages inside an ATX or later PC (unless you OPEN the powersupply). Software's binary code, not volts/amps. That's not saying that your tech doesn't know his stuff.

(bragging on..)

I was an electrician and an electronic technician long before the PC showed up. I self-taught myself in electronics as a boy on the farm when most of it was still vacuum tubes, and yep, my beard's a bit grey.

An electronics technician can easily be an electrician, (bigger tools, less test equipment) the difference is the mechanical/construction/plumbing end, something farm boys usually have covered. Electrons don't care what your title is. Contracts, unions, and laws do.

Motorola Radio Service Software got me into PC repairs as a radio technician. We used Compaq 286 "sewing machine" pooters on the bench running "MRSS" to program and align/adjust Motorola two-way radios for copcars and firetrucks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compaq_Portable
http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org/compaq/
(fwiw, I snagged that machine at city surplus and stashed it away!)
I got tired of seeing my "tool" go away for a week into the bowels of a Compaq service center whenever it got sick, so I learned MSDOS 3.31 and PC hardware. I didn't buy a premade for my first PC, I built it myself in 1991 (wheee... 386SX16, 100 MB HD, 4 megs RAM) and it was "downhill" from there.

I'm now a "communications electrician" for a large public power utility.
Our mission-critical workstations are industrial (like Suns) and the "PC" based critical stuff is Texas Microsystems or similar, often built in-house.

(bragging off... but I did want you to know where I come from)


First observation:
Mainstream PC power supplies (PSs) are built (and sold) so cheaply (even the gourmet brands that modders are so fond of) that it's amazing that they bomb as seldom as they do. Industrial PSs like Texas Micro's stuff does have a better reliability factor, but just that PS alone costs as much as a mid-range gamer's PC. You don't even want to ask what an avionics power supply for a weapons subsystem on an F16D costs, but they do seem quite reliable ;}

Second observation:
Thank ghu that the fail modes of these power supplies (even *cringe* Bestecs) don't damage the rest of the computer "most" of the time. (for some value of "most".. my personal experience is about 1 fried mobo/blown RAM/toasted HD for 6 puked PSs)

Your first bad power supply scares the crap out of you, especially if you don't have some form of data backup in place. Chill out a little.


Now for the electrical stuff...


Have you had a lot of other home appliance, electronics, or lighting problems? Usually, "bad power" causes other problems.

"120 VAC" means a so-call spec range of 105 to 135 VAC. It's wide because the "Nominal" voltage never really standardized until recently. Some old stuff says 110 VAC, then it was 115 VAC, then 117 VAC and now it's 120VAC.

Most utilities try for 115-125 volts,


High (surge) voltage kills light bulbs. Really high (spike) voltage smokes electronics.
Low (sag) voltage overheats motors. Really low (brownout) voltage overheats them far faster as in burnup. It usually doesn't damage electronics, just makes it malfunction.
"Dirty" power is a different problem and may not show on a meter as voltage that's less than 105V or more than 135V. "Dirt" can be many things that make the waveform "severely non-sinusoidal". See a clean sine wave at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_wave. Dirt is distortion.

The above are generalizations. There's a lot more.
I found a more in-depth treatise on this at
http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/power.htm
that was written well but easily understood


OK...

If you've had no noticeable other electrical problems, just chalk this dead power supply off to "*** happens".

If you _have_ had other problems, contact your power utility. People complain about "bad power" all the time but never call in the problem. The utility can't fix it if they don't know about it, and there isn't any cost effective way to preventively test each customer's feed. (that may change with the next generation of electronic meters and automated meter reading, it's actually done that way for large customers but with specialized on-site equipment)

The buzzwords you need are "Power Quality", "Recording Voltmeter", and "Voltage Control" when you talk to the Customer Service people. Ask them to come out and run a test on your building and that should get action. Reality is they will actually use a digital power quality recorder that actually records far more than just voltage (unless your power utility is still in the Stone Age, some are... unfortunately).

Be aware that the problem may be on "your side of the meter", as in misbalanced loads, overloaded wiring, bad grounding, etc. What's called a "loose neutral" is a common cause in older houses. Unfortunately to trace down which "neutral is loose" can mean opening up every outlet and junction box to fix, and there often is more than one. You'll end up with an electrician as either your best friend or worst enemy...


UPSs and surge suppressors...

Suppressors/Protectors:

Do it.... but..

There's a lot of hokum, confusion, and outright lies out there regarding surge suppressors (helloooo "westom".. here, kitty, kitty, kitty;} ).
This is about the best site I've seen that balances it all and makes good non-brand but specification/feature recommendations with good explanations
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/surge-protector7.htm
(just ignore the Belkin in the picture, see later in post)

Opinions:

Depending on you are connected.. (some have both)
Get one that also handles your phone line(dialup modem or DSL)/LAN in/outs with LAN RJ45 jacks (8 wire), RJ11(telephone) (6 wire) plugs into RJ45s but not the other way around.
If you are on cable or FIOS that uses coax, make sure it has F connectors. I know, fiberoptic cable itself won't bring in a surge from outside the house, but crap can be cross-coupled off your TV or the in-home phone system.

Get the one(s) with some of the widely-spaced "wallwart" outlets. You also need to plug in all the damned powersupplies powering stuff that's connected to your PC like modems, routers, USB hubs, printers speaker systems, even the cellphone cradle/charger for your smartphone or Ipoddy-like thing if it's also plugged into USB.

If you need even more outlets, it's OK to daisy-chain another suppressor to get more holes, but it won't "up your protection factor". Treat the downstream on as just another outlet strip.

Brands I consider OK if you get the specs right:
Tripplite, SG Waber, but I've not been shopping for a while. I feel that anyone that puts a performance warranty to cover damage is probably OK, just save the receipt and the warranty off the box.


Brands I don't like (and why, remember it's just my opinion).
Belkin (overpriced and I think "Belkin" is a made-up name that intentionally sounds like Belden. I only buy "Belkin" stuff when there's no other easy choice, like on a weekend and it's the only thing available to set up someone's system. Probably OK tho..)
Monster Cable (think Belkin's overpriced? Gold plating doesn't do a damned thing to improve performance. OK if you want to impress people..)


UPS?
This is another can of worms.
It's somewhat of an overkill for most PC users, provided you do backups regularly and don't have something "mission critical" in use.

However, they do provide at least surge suppression.

They also help if you have frequent short power outages. Kinda humorous and sad at the same time, but a good example is areas that get lots of "drunk on a stick" (car/pole) accidents. The powerlines whip together and arc, opening the "recloser" (a special fuselike device). A few seconds later the recloser "recloses" and the juice is back. If the line still has a problem, back open it goes. Older reclosers would cycle three times, then stay open. You'll probably remember that happening, now you know why.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uninterruptible_power_supply tells it well.

What it boils down to for this post is that if you are trying to get "regulation" or "clean power" out of a UPS, you can't get by with with a "Offline / Standby UPS ". That eliminates Belkin right off the bat, as well as probably anything you'll find at Staples, Home Depot, Fry's etc.
However, they'll work for the "recloser thing", or allow you to save and close down a "mission critical" item. Just remember you'll have to have the monitor plugged into the UPS to be able to see to do this.

I think I'll shut up... hope this helps.









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