Re: copying the hidden XP recovery partition


"Matt" <matt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:bLJ_j.325$PD1.116@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I have a four-year-old IBM desktop with XP Pro. It has a hidden partition
containing a copy of XP Pro and what is called the "Product Recovery
Program". I guess it is common nowadays that the vendor provides a
partition like that (instead of a Windows CD) for getting the system
software back to the factory-new state. I have used it once to wipe and
reinstall the system, and it worked fine.

The computer is out of warranty, so it seems that if the hard drive were
to go bad, I would lose the only copy of the OS and would have to pay who
knows how much for a Windows CD.

So I would like to set up a spare hard drive with a copy of that hidden
recovery partition. Can I do that with ordinary methods (disk
partitioning, file copying)? Is there a howto somewhere for this, or can
somebody offer some advice on the details?


"Anna" <myname@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:e8ydnYbSDe3w86bVnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Matt:
Not only would you "lost the only copy of the OS" should your HDD "go
bad", but also all your programs & user-created data as well.

I'm sure you're aware of this but I mention it only to emphasize that what
you should give serious consideration to is establishing & maintaining a
backup system that you would employ on a routine basis; a backup system
that would be comprehensive in scope, i.e., one that would back up the
*entire* contents of your HDD, not just the "recovery partition". So that
your > operating system, all programs & applications, all user-created
data - in short, *everything* that's on your day-to-day working HDD would
be backed up.

You can accomplish this rather easily with a disk-to-disk cloning or
disk-imaging program. One method is to use a USB external HDD as the
recipient of the clone, i.e., the "destination" HDD. So that in the event
of catastrophic failure of your internal HDD you would have at hand a
"clone" of that HDD and could use the clone to resurrect your system by
cloning the contents of the external HDD back to a new internal HDD. The
process is relatively simple & straightforward and would similarly be
available should your internal HDD, though not defective, become
unbootable/dysfunctional because of corruption of the OS.

We all have our preferences as to which program we prefer. I'm sure others
will indicate their favorites.
Anna


"Mary" <non@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:g1fspk$7sb$1@xxxxxxxxxxx
Anna, I dont have a computer with "Recovery program" but my daughter does
and I fix her computer when anything is wrong, and also if I get another
computer, it seems that all manufacturers are now only providing "Recovery
backups". I was wondering can you not copy the entire contents of your
computer onto another internal hard drive which has nothing on it, rather
than an external hard drive. I have an extra IDE hard drive which I don't
use. (My present computer only uses IDE connectors, I have no SATA
drives).
I have never done any complete backups and wouldn't know how to do it, but
this thread has made me think. Is there any free backup programs that are
simple to use to transfer all information on a hard drive to an empty hard
drive?. I use Win 98 but have Win XP on a separate partition for when I
need
it. I like Win 98 as its not as cluttered as Win XP, and Vista is
something
far into my future I hope.


I was thinking also along the lines of what John Doe said in another
message
when he said:

"The problem isn't with backup, the problem is having to buy a copy
of Windows XP if his hard drive fails."

And like Matt, I was wondering how you can copy the hidden Recovery disk
information onto another drive.
How can you access the hidden Recovery disk information?
When my daughter got her computer, it was ready made and I only added a
video card. I also created Recovery disks.
I thought, though maybe I am wrong, that Recovery disks could be used if
somehow your files got corrupted and you could use the Recovery disks as
if
they were a backup and be able to put Win XP back in your system as it if
was a complete WinXP install only its a backup image. I wonder if Matt
made
CDR's or DVD copies of the Recovery partition.


These are the things I wondered about. I am not going to be doing anything
about it for now till I know exactly what I am doing and right now, I
don't.
I was under the impression that if you make Recovery disks when you get
the
new computer by copying the image onto CD's or DVD's as in the
instructions that if you have a problem, you can use the Recovery program
CDR's/DVD's to fix the problem. I thought it also could mean that you
could > install the Recovery discs as if they were a backup of your whole
system. If you don't make Recovery disks, you would have to find the
hidden OS image > on your hard drive and that sounds tricky. Since I first
heard about Recovery > disks a couple of years ago, more and more
manufacturers do not give you original OS CD's - just tell you to make
CDR's from the hidden partition on > the computer hard drive (in the cases
where you buy a ready made computer or laptop). I guess it saves the
manufactuers money.
Mary


Mary:
First of all...

If your exclusive interest is in a "free backup program" as you indicated in
your original post, then stop reading right now and look no further re the
following comments I'm about to make. I really don't know of any free
comprehensive and truly useful (easy-to-understand, reasonably quick in
operation, & consistently reliable) backup programs that I would recommend
to you or anyone.

But if you would not be averse toward purchasing the kind of comprehensive
backup program that I'm about to describe, then continue reading...

Let me say at the outset that you could use another internal HDD as the
"destination" drive, i.e., the HDD that would serve as the recipient of the
cloned contents of your daughter's internal day-to-day working HDD. I'm
assuming you're working with a desktop PC, right?

The following is predicated on the basis that a user is seeking a reliable
program to backup his or her *entire* day-to-day booting HDD, including the
XP OS, all the user's programs & applications, as well as user-created data,
in short - *everything* that's on one's "source" HDD. And wants an effective
simple-to-use program to do this on a systematic routine basis and do so
reasonably quickly. So that if & when the day comes when the user's primary
HDD fails to boot or otherwise becomes dysfunctional because of a corrupted
OS or becomes physically/electronically defective the user will be able to
easily and reasonably quickly restore his or her system.

This type of comprehensive backup system can be achieved through the use of
a disk-cloning (or disk-imaging program). A backup program that one could
use on a daily basis should the user want. A program that will create a
precise copy of one's day-to-day HDD so that should that HDD fail or the
system becomes unbootable because of a corrupt operating system or become
dysfunctional for any other reason, the user would have the wherewithal to
restore his/her system to a bootable, functional state with a minimum of
fuss. What better backup system can one have?

The disk-to-disk cloning program we greatly prefer is the Casper 4 program -
see http://www.fssdev.com

I note a number of responders to your query and that of Matt's similar query
have recommended the Acronis True Image program (which is both a
disk-cloning and disk-imaging program). While ATI is a fine program and you
should consider it (there's a trial version available at Acronis's site), we
believe based on our extensive experience with both programs (as well as a
number of other disk-cloning disk-imaging programs) that the Casper 4
program is superior for most users.

The Casper 4 program is extremely simple to use even for an inexperienced
user, reasonably quick in operation, and quite effective. There's virtually
no
learning curve in undertaking the disk cloning process as one navigates
through the few easy-to-understand screens with a final mouse-click on the
button on the screen which will trigger the disk-cloning process. After
undertaking one or two disk-cloning operations it should take the user no
more than 15 - 20 seconds or so to get to that point.

But the truly significant advantage of the Casper 4.0 disk cloning program
compared with other disk cloning programs that we're familiar with, e.g.,
Acronis True Image, is its ability to create *incremental* disk clones
following the creation of the original (first) disk clone. Employing what
Casper calls its "SmartClone" technology the program can create subsequent
disk clones of the source HDD usually at a fraction of the time it takes to
create a "full" disk clone. This results in a decided incentive for the user
to undertake frequent complete backups of his or her system knowing that
they can create "incremental" disk clones in a relatively short period of
time. Understand that this "incremental disk clone" is a *complete* clone
(copy) of the "source" HDD.

Bear in mind that the recipient of the clone - the "destination" HDD
(internal or external) - would contain the *complete* contents of one's
internal HDD (presumably the boot drive). Since that destination drive would
be a copy of the source HDD, its contents would be immediately accessible
and potentially bootable. Naturally its contents could be cloned back to a
internal HDD should a restoration of the system be necessary. Again, what
better backup system can one have? And again - because the Casper 4
disk-cloning operation takes a relatively short period of time to complete
its disk-cloning operations there's a strong incentive for the user to more
frequently keep their backups up-to-date than they might otherwise do.

Again, I want to emphasize that the main advantage of the Casper 4 program
in comparison with other disk-cloning programs is its rather remarkable
ability to *routinely* clone the contents of one HDD to another HDD
(following the initial disk-cloning process) in a fraction of the time it
generally takes for other disk-cloning (as well as disk-imaging) programs to
complete the process. In my experience this is a strong incentive for the
user to back up their systems on a frequent basis - perhaps even once a day
or two or three times a week - knowing that the disk-cloning operation will
take only a few short minutes to complete the process. And at the end of
that process the user will have at hand a "perfect copy" of their day-to-day
working HDD. I ask again - what better backup system can one have? And have
it in a relatively short time?

The Casper 4.0 program is also capable of scheduling the disk-cloning
process on a daily, weekly, or other time period selected by the user so
that should the user prefer he or she could arrange for automatic backups at
pre-determined times.

There's a trial version available at
http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/trial/ although it's somewhat crippled
it should give one a good idea as to how the program works.

The downside to the Casper 4 program as compared with the Acronis and most
other disk-cloning programs is the cost of the program which comes to $49.95
for the program + $9.95 for the "Casper Startup Disk" (the program to create
the bootable CD containing the Casper program - needed to access the program
in the event of a failed HDD). So it's more expensive than the others. But
in our view, well worth the additional cost considering its overall
effectiveness and the fact that one will be using the program many, many
times over the weeks & months ahead. We've introduced the program to many
users (including former ATI users) and I can't recall a single person who
regretted his/her purchase. AFAIK, the program is available only through
download from the developer.

Another possible downside to the Casper 4 program (depending upon one's
interests) is that it's really not designed to create "generational" copies
of one's system. Some users like to maintain complete copies of their system
at various points in time. In other words, for example, a user might want to
retain (for one reason or another) a complete copy of his or her system as
it existed on May 30 and June 2 and June 5, etc., etc. To that end a
disk-imaging program (such as the Acronis one) is more practical since to
accomplish that objective using a disk-cloning program such as Casper 4 the
user would obviously need a fair number of HDDs to serve as the recipients
of the clones at those various points in time. But based on our experience I
would say that the vast number of users are simply interested in maintaining
only a current up-to-date copy of their system and have little or no
interest in maintaining "generational" copies of such. But that capability
may be a consideration for some users.

So I would recommend that you or any user who is interested in a
comprehensive backup program should try the Casper 4 program to determine if
that program meets their needs.
Anna


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