Re: PC Behaving badly

'Strange' suggests nothing learned by swapping parts. For example,
if reseating a data cabled cured anything, then was the problem due to
connector corrosion? Speculation using shotgunning often makes that
conclusion. But if 'breaking and making' that connection solved
anything, then a defect still exists. Defect still exists even when
problem 'appears' to be solved. We learned this because nothing was
fixed until the 'cure' was explained by 'whys'.

Strange is why responsible manufacturers supply comprehensive
diagnostics. Why does a system/component work here and not there?
Nobody has a clue, in part, because facts provided from diagnostics,
et al were not provided. A conclusion without supporting facts is
nothing more than wild speculation perverted into a proclaimed
'declaration of truth'.

For example, does that 'strangeness' come from a power supply system
defect? We know 'little to nothing' until a conclusion is based in a
'defintively something'. Facts and numbers are essential to fixing
things; solving it the first time; understanding the problem now and
to avoid future problems, AND to even make your posts here useful to
others.

An example of one who often violates these basic principles and who
posts without even basic electrical knowleldge are posts from John
Doe. He even foolishly believes danger exists when probing inside a
computer; which is why his ultimate conclusion is to never remove a
computer's cover.

Generally, repair things to learn. Not only to learn how that
component works. But to also appreciate how reality works. Military
academies graduate everyone with engineering training. Those
graduates are therefore provided training on how to solve all
problems. For example, so many Americans believed Saddam had WMDs
because 'speculation resulting in assumed conclusions' used the same
techniques found in shotgunning. Know something by denying or
ignoring the underlying facts? In that WMD speculation, Zippe, the
company that makes same for America, showed the White House why those
aluminum tubes could never be used for manufacturing WMDs. Those were
facts with numbers. Why did they go right back and proclaim that
Saddam had WMDs? Shotgunning. Conversion of wild speculation (even
ignore the numbers) into 'known facts'.

Curious (not strange) are symptoms of your hardware in a friend's
system. Strange is only because we have no useful facts. Again, why
we learn using facts such as manufacturer diagnostics and other
'numbers and facts'. Notice how many just know how to fix computers
and yet never even learned the power of diagnostics or how things
work? To make a decision without 'numbers and facts' is to declare
wild speculation as fact. To solve problems using Windows as a
diagnostic tool may also complicate a problem. It may appear to fix
something - which is different from actually fixing something.

Again, even a defective power supply can still boot and run a
computer. Does that mean the power supply really is not defective? A
useful conclusion requires facts based in 'definitively'. Shotgunning
does not teach; may only result in failures later (ie inside that
power supply). Not only does it work; but also why? Why is essential
to a solution - the 'definitive something' answer.

Removing a CD-Rom fixed it? Well, which computer was controlling
the bus? Computer inside the CD-Rom or computer inside a disk drive?
If using facts to draw conclusions, then answers to this question
would be part of your symptoms. What was tested by swapping?
Swapping (testing), performed based upon fundamental knowledge (the
hypothesis), is different from swapping based only on wild speculation
(shotgunning).

Meanwhile, your symptoms were classic of what would be discovered or
eliminated by using the two minute procedure in "When your computer
dies without warning....." starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup
alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh
A defective power supply system (that can still boot a computer) can
also create 'strange' problems. Do you know your or your friend's
power supply system is completely functional? To answer that question
requires numbers.

I assume you are satisfied by having the disk system working without
knowing why. I assume you will not further investigage to actually
learn what had failed or why failure happens. That is what most
people do. Same reason why, for example, only a minority could
suspect that 'Saddam has WMDs' was also based in myths and wild
speculation.

Did you know each disk drive and CD-Rom contains a computer system?
Did you know incompatibilities may exist between their computers?
Those using shotgunning would never learn. Those asking damning
questions - not just trying to shotgun or fix something - would learn
about some disk drives and CD-Roms that can cause the other peripheral
to fail.

This post simply demonstrates why people such as John Doe will often
know without first learning facts. BTW, John Doe is posting here only
because he was previously exposed as an expert who only knows from
shotgunning; does not even have basic electrical knowledge. Does he
post using technical facts, or for emotional revenge? Well, only the
naive would claim motherboard BIOS is sufficient to measure
voltages. BIOS measurement hardware is often unreliable until
calibrated such as by using a 3.5 digit multimeter.

Some ideas to better understood what you experienced. What were the
manufacturers for each disk drive or CD-Rom? How do symptoms change
when changing how the system accesses various combinations of IDE
devices? And, of course, how do those changes affect conclusions from
the hardware diagnostic? Some questions to ask and answer in the
future.

Also curious would be whether you move on to understand the problem
OR are satisfied by just having the disk system working. Many self
proclaimed computer experts never bother to ask damning questions
which is why their solutions are routinely found in shotgunning.

At minimum, I would still execute comprehensive hardware diagnostics
to learn what they report; useful knowledge gained from the
experience. Good to hear you also have a working solution.

On Dec 18, 10:50 am, "OhioGuy" <n...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
I don't really consider this "shotgunning". That would be just randomly
removing a part and testing it.

I was having a hard drive related message come up on bootup, and I
happened to have a couple of spare hard drives laying around in known
working condition.

Therefore, it was a simple thing to replace the hard drive to see if
replacing it might fix the issue.

It really does appear to be some sort of issue caused by having the old
CD-ROM drive on the same data cable. Reseating the data cables didn't catch
that, but running the system without the data cable hooked to the CD-ROM
drive did.

The really strange thing is that the mobile rack drive works fine now, and
it works fine when taken out and hooked up to my PC in the basement.
However, it could not be accessed on my friend's computer. He has another
mobile rack like mine, and hasn't had any problems with it. His system
would boot up ok with this drive in it, but could not see it. Strange.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: I just dont understand why...
    ... There are no facts to support your statement. ... > facts, you can only project by speculation, which was what the ... > it would be my wife, or my wife would be very close at hand. ...
    (rec.boats.paddle)
  • Re: Pointless killing of Ruddy ducks.
    ... R&fR speculating that Northumberland woud be grey squirrel free. ... Have you ever thought that you should learn a few facts about a subject ... You still don't know the difference between facts and speculation. ... RSPB Scotland membership going up. ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Consciousness revisited
    ... I don't confuse speculation with facts. ... for the fired neuron to recharge. ... they will fire, ...
    (comp.ai.philosophy)
  • Re: Pointless killing of Ruddy ducks.
    ... the UK eradication programme. ... Have you ever thought that you should learn a few facts about a subject ... You still don't know the difference between facts and speculation. ... And, anyway, you clearly don't think you are part of nature as you are ...
    (uk.environment.conservation)
  • Re: Risk Of Huge Pacific Ocean Tsunami On West Coast Of America Greater Than Previously Thought
    ... "The prime function of imagination is to see our whole orderly system ... of life as a pile of stratified revolutions. ... strange; not so much to make wonders facts as to make facts wonders. ...
    (sci.geo.earthquakes)