Re: XP Pre Installed

Ed Medlin wrote:

"David Maynard" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:124ispfk7os0ke2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

H. Seldon wrote:


H. Seldon wrote:


David Maynard tickled the ivories with this on Friday 4/21/2006



<snip it down a bit>

I suppose what I mean is that to me, everyone has a moral responsibility to look after our own country's industry before buying cheaper off-shore.


As an unabashed, unashamed down right pridefull, old fashioned Yankee Doodle Dandy flag waver my first inclination is to say darn right.

On the other hand they need to eat too, since you mentioned morals.


Well, true. However, what is that thing about "charity begins at home"?

Sure, but charity only goes so far and what might be considered a 'boycott' of other's goods isn't quite the same thing.


And you must be very careful about 'boycotts'. If you were to boycott a company, like say, Toyota, you would be hurting Americans because Toyota has 'offshored' the majority of all of their auto manufacturing to America for the cars sold here. Volvo, Jaguar, and several other manufacturers have also been aquired by US companies and are either made here or are under US corporate control.

Right. Not to mention even if that weren't the case people get pissed off ;)

(funny how soon after Lincoln Motor Division of Ford aquired Jaguar that a Town Car began getting 25+ mpg hwy and had more HP from a small displacement V8........:-)

And what did the Jaguar get? Finally a crankcase that didn't leak?

Of course, I'm speaking of a *fair* trade situation which, granted, is often not the case.


Almost never the case. I am not sure if it would be possible to have an entirely 'fair' trade situation in a global economy.

Depends on how one defines 'fair'.

But you're right that completely 'fair' is unlikely because it's virtually impossible to get governments out of the 'business'.

But, back to self interest, I also note that trade protectionism almost always hurts everybody. For example, the market actually survived the crash of '29 and had rebounded to almost 90% of it's pre-crash value (which were all time highs). It was the 1920's trade wars, that primed the system, and even more aggressive trade war and protectionist policies afterward that plunged the world into depression, and kept it there. In what might be described as a case of stunning global economic stupidity virtually everything all governments did to 'fix it' was precisely wrong and the U.S. did their part with the 1930 Smoot-Hawley Tariff that promptly stimulated a whole new round of even more vicious trade wars. Then, just to make sure it would last, the Roosevelt administration rejected any notion of restoring international trade but, instead, resorted to monetary inflation, redistributionist cartel-like price and wage fixing, and other command economy policies, none of which produce a dern thing. And you don't make money if you don't produce and sell something. Some of the ideas, and the logic behind them, would be comical if it weren't so serious. A trivial one, for the comedic effect, is Roosevelt moved Thanksgiving up a week to stimulate the economy because, by golly, there'd then be an extra whole week between Thanksgiving and Christmas to shop. Now, seriously, how many people do you know who've said "I'd have gotten you a present, even though I ain't got no money honey, if only there'd been another week between Thanksgiving and Christmas to shop?" And meant it.

The inflation policy was even worse with the logic being people would make 'more money' from inflated prices and, so, spend more. Viola, economic boom. Except they forget you can't buy any more product at inflated prices with inflated income; you get x% more and everything costs x% more. Stalemate. But you can sure screw the economy because who in their right mind is going to lend your business money at a reasonable rate when it's going to be worth half that when you pay them back? Which, btw, the Roosevelt administration touted as a 'feature' in the propogan..., I mean, PSA news reels. You get to SCREW the lenders, replete with Simon Legree character, by paying them with 'worthless' dollars. yipee woo-hoo, good times are here again. But even lenders aren't that stupid so forget business development, and the attendant jobs, the wages, the spending from those wages and what they'd buy, which would need more production, people to produce it and, so, jobs, those wages, the spending and products it would buy...

Public works projects were good because at least you're producing something but when governemnt does it you've taken the business out of the private sector so you're either abetting the folding of existing contruction companies or failing to stimulate the creation of new ones. Project completes and, yes, you have the thing that was built but no company and jobs.

So I'm not sure what the answer is. I mean, I'm convinced that 'free trade' is good but I'm not sure how to get the others to understand that and 'play fair'.

But I tell ya one thing, it's about time we stopped being schizoid about it screaming 'jobs, jobs, jobs' then turn right around and kick, curse, tax, regulate and in just about every other way imaginable try to destroy the businesses that provide those 'jobs, jobs, jobs'.


Everything you say is absolutely correct and the subject is indeed an extremely complex one. However, you have to admit that it's very difficult not to whine

Sure. The trick is to know in what direction to aim the whine ;)



Sit and spin................:-)


when you see North American inventiveness shipped offshore as raw material only to come back as a finished product. Electronic components being one of the more glaring examples for me I suppose.

On that particular score I'm more concerned about the flat out stealing of the intellectual property. I mean, we could, if we weren't so hot diggity dog set on crippling our own businesses, create domestic incentives to build plants here, for example, but intellectual property theft is something else, and rampant in the 'emerging' economies.

Although I heard just a day or two ago that the Chinese are, at least, 'discussing' intellectual property rights because it's apparently dawned on one or two of them that perhaps their own entrepreneurs would be more likely to develop something if it wasn't stolen 15 minutes after they made one. hmmm <cartoon light bulb glowing above head>

Watching the automotive industry going down the toilet while foreign automobiles flood the market bothers me no end. I won't buy 'em. They're coming in from Japan, Korea, Europe and the next load will be coming in from China. Yet in Japan, in particular, you would be very hard pressed to find an *American* automobile dealership I'm sure.

You're right, you won't, to any degree. They don't 'bar' imports, per see, they regulate them to death. Did it with electronics too.

I've often wondered why the U.S. couldn't just 'copy' their regulations, for here. I mean, how could Japan complain if we 'took their lead' and did exactly what they do? Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, right ;)


Japan's economy is not exactly booming right now. A lot is probably due to their protectionism by putting so many regulations on imports, especially food.

Yes, I mentioned that in another place somewhere. PLus all their domestic economic policies as well.


Even though the answers are not forthcoming from anyone in power positions, it's still difficult to watch our young people struggle by, in many instances, in minimum wage jobs while what would be middle income jobs in the North America job market go to Mexico, China, Bangledesh and whoever else that will work for barely enough to eat.

I'm not sure if that problem is really accurate or politics, or someting else. Like perhaps the abysmal high school drop out rate in some places.


Aahhh, I don't know, I'm probably just old and crotchity. ^^

Naw, you're just concerned. Should be.


Old and crotchity is good, it means you care about something.........:-)


however, I agree to an extent, with what you say because in many cases you can't tell the difference between a genuine import and something contracted off-shore *by* business in your own country.


Don't forget vice versa, things made here put into those 'imports'.


Sometimes I think Lou Dobbs has it nailed down pat.


He's 'on a mission' and, IMO, not very objective about it. How often does he point out that unemployment figures are at historic lows despite 'out sourcing'? Not to mention all the jobs that get 'in sourced' from over there.

I suspect what's eventually going to happen is what happened to all those 'great ideas' various pundits back in the 80's wanted us to copy from the 'Japanese Model'. Their economy has been near stagnant for a decade under the burden of those 'great ideas', and they're trying to figure out how to 'fix' them, while we've seen sustained growth despite the bumps.

The problem is we keep getting beat about the head and shoulders weathering the rest of the world flailing through their free trade education.


You're correct but I guess it's just kind of nice to see someone hanging out the window screaming:

"I'm mad as hell and I'm just not going to take it anymore".

Loved that part and I'll bet even more 'real' people followed suit than in the movie. hehe.

His politics were all screwed up but it was fun anyway.



Right away I realized they probably cost about 5 bucks to make. Labor included. So, why in hell would I give some f**king company $139.00 for them much less $189.00. Most brand name computers have bottom end componets and sell at a high end price. Why should I give a company the high end price for it. Point? You go with statements like "The average user wouldn't know the difference between a bottom end or top end CPU". That is irrelavent. The fact of the matter is that most people buying a computer have access to a person or persons who do know. They just don't bother to ask. Our society is so totally complacent that most times we don't even bother to ask someone who *does* have the knowledge. That is the difference in our generations my friend. I don't pretend to know whether complacency is the correct way or the incorrect way. I just know it's not my way. Being consistently screwed and enjoying it less and less just doesn't seem sensible to me and is something I definitely do not enjoy or accept.




Btw, the answer to your question 'why should I pay' such and such is, that's what the market will bear; and all the arguments about 'cost to make', mark up, or whatever, are irrelevant.



Hmmmm, I wonder how difficult it is to make your own shoes and boots? ;-)


Hehe. I don't know but I bet you'd appreciate the 'store bought' price more if you tried ;)


I don't know about that. Humanity is pretty stuborn *and* adaptable when it has to be. ^^


Well, true. But what I had in mind is that things are usually a bit more 'involved' than they, at first, appear so while it looks like a 'simple' matter of cut this, hammer that, bingo... shoe... it ends up being cut this 14 times before you figure out how to do it right, ruin 10 of them with bent nails... etc... Then ya finally get a shoe... which falls apart 2 weeks later because, hmmm... supposed to use a special thread there, are ya? hehe

It's all still 'simple', of course. It's just not knowing what all the 'simple' things are that gets ya.


Knowing what all those 'simple' things ARE is called a 'skill'.

Well, it's generally a part but surely you've known people who 'knew' things but couldn't actually *do* them to save their life ;)

Reminds me of a great line from "The Court Martial of Billy Mitchell" where the prosecutor claimed, in retort to the retired general's argument that none of the brass were pilots and so were ignorant about aviation, that the brass regularly 'informed' themselves by reading about aviation and the general replied "well, just reading a book about golf doesn't make one a good golfer."


Something that many of our youth, unfortunately, don't want to learn anymore.

Ed





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