Re: XP Pre Installed


"David Maynard" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:124ispfk7os0ke2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
H. Seldon wrote:

H. Seldon wrote:

David Maynard tickled the ivories with this on Friday 4/21/2006



<snip it down a bit>

I suppose what I mean is that to me, everyone has a moral
responsibility to look after our own country's industry before buying
cheaper off-shore.


As an unabashed, unashamed down right pridefull, old fashioned Yankee
Doodle Dandy flag waver my first inclination is to say darn right.

On the other hand they need to eat too, since you mentioned morals.


Well, true. However, what is that thing about "charity begins at home"?

Sure, but charity only goes so far and what might be considered a
'boycott' of other's goods isn't quite the same thing.

And you must be very careful about 'boycotts'. If you were to boycott a
company, like say, Toyota, you would be hurting Americans because Toyota has
'offshored' the majority of all of their auto manufacturing to America for
the cars sold here. Volvo, Jaguar, and several other manufacturers have also
been aquired by US companies and are either made here or are under US
corporate control. (funny how soon after Lincoln Motor Division of Ford
aquired Jaguar that a Town Car began getting 25+ mpg hwy and had more HP
from a small displacement V8........:-)

Of course, I'm speaking of a *fair* trade situation which, granted, is
often not the case.

Almost never the case. I am not sure if it would be possible to have an
entirely 'fair' trade situation in a global economy.



But, back to self interest, I also note that trade protectionism almost
always hurts everybody. For example, the market actually survived the
crash of '29 and had rebounded to almost 90% of it's pre-crash value
(which were all time highs). It was the 1920's trade wars, that primed
the system, and even more aggressive trade war and protectionist
policies afterward that plunged the world into depression, and kept it
there. In what might be described as a case of stunning global economic
stupidity virtually everything all governments did to 'fix it' was
precisely wrong and the U.S. did their part with the 1930 Smoot-Hawley
Tariff that promptly stimulated a whole new round of even more vicious
trade wars. Then, just to make sure it would last, the Roosevelt
administration rejected any notion of restoring international trade but,
instead, resorted to monetary inflation, redistributionist cartel-like
price and wage fixing, and other command economy policies, none of which
produce a dern thing. And you don't make money if you don't produce and
sell something. Some of the ideas, and the logic behind them, would be
comical if it weren't so serious. A trivial one, for the comedic effect,
is Roosevelt moved Thanksgiving up a week to stimulate the economy
because, by golly, there'd then be an extra whole week between
Thanksgiving and Christmas to shop. Now, seriously, how many people do
you know who've said "I'd have gotten you a present, even though I ain't
got no money honey, if only there'd been another week between
Thanksgiving and Christmas to shop?" And meant it.

The inflation policy was even worse with the logic being people would
make 'more money' from inflated prices and, so, spend more. Viola,
economic boom. Except they forget you can't buy any more product at
inflated prices with inflated income; you get x% more and everything
costs x% more. Stalemate. But you can sure screw the economy because who
in their right mind is going to lend your business money at a reasonable
rate when it's going to be worth half that when you pay them back?
Which, btw, the Roosevelt administration touted as a 'feature' in the
propogan..., I mean, PSA news reels. You get to SCREW the lenders,
replete with Simon Legree character, by paying them with 'worthless'
dollars. yipee woo-hoo, good times are here again. But even lenders
aren't that stupid so forget business development, and the attendant
jobs, the wages, the spending from those wages and what they'd buy,
which would need more production, people to produce it and, so, jobs,
those wages, the spending and products it would buy...

Public works projects were good because at least you're producing
something but when governemnt does it you've taken the business out of
the private sector so you're either abetting the folding of existing
contruction companies or failing to stimulate the creation of new ones.
Project completes and, yes, you have the thing that was built but no
company and jobs.

So I'm not sure what the answer is. I mean, I'm convinced that 'free
trade' is good but I'm not sure how to get the others to understand that
and 'play fair'.

But I tell ya one thing, it's about time we stopped being schizoid about
it screaming 'jobs, jobs, jobs' then turn right around and kick, curse,
tax, regulate and in just about every other way imaginable try to
destroy the businesses that provide those 'jobs, jobs, jobs'.


Everything you say is absolutely correct and the subject is indeed an
extremely complex one. However, you have to admit that it's very
difficult not to whine

Sure. The trick is to know in what direction to aim the whine ;)


Sit and spin................:-)

when you see North American inventiveness shipped offshore as raw
material only to come back as a finished product. Electronic components
being one of the more glaring examples for me I suppose.

On that particular score I'm more concerned about the flat out stealing of
the intellectual property. I mean, we could, if we weren't so hot diggity
dog set on crippling our own businesses, create domestic incentives to
build plants here, for example, but intellectual property theft is
something else, and rampant in the 'emerging' economies.

Although I heard just a day or two ago that the Chinese are, at least,
'discussing' intellectual property rights because it's apparently dawned
on one or two of them that perhaps their own entrepreneurs would be more
likely to develop something if it wasn't stolen 15 minutes after they made
one. hmmm <cartoon light bulb glowing above head>

Watching the automotive industry going down the toilet while foreign
automobiles flood the market bothers me no end. I won't buy 'em. They're
coming in from Japan, Korea, Europe and the next load will be coming in
from China. Yet in Japan, in particular, you would be very hard pressed
to find an *American* automobile dealership I'm sure.

You're right, you won't, to any degree. They don't 'bar' imports, per see,
they regulate them to death. Did it with electronics too.

I've often wondered why the U.S. couldn't just 'copy' their regulations,
for here. I mean, how could Japan complain if we 'took their lead' and did
exactly what they do? Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, right
;)

Japan's economy is not exactly booming right now. A lot is probably due to
their protectionism by putting so many regulations on imports, especially
food.

Even though the answers are not forthcoming from anyone in power
positions, it's still difficult to watch our young people struggle by, in
many instances, in minimum wage jobs while what would be middle income
jobs in the North America job market go to Mexico, China, Bangledesh and
whoever else that will work for barely enough to eat.

I'm not sure if that problem is really accurate or politics, or someting
else. Like perhaps the abysmal high school drop out rate in some places.

Aahhh, I don't know, I'm probably just old and crotchity. ^^

Naw, you're just concerned. Should be.

Old and crotchity is good, it means you care about something.........:-)


however, I agree to an extent, with what you say because in many cases
you can't tell the difference between a genuine import and something
contracted off-shore *by* business in your own country.


Don't forget vice versa, things made here put into those 'imports'.

Sometimes I think Lou Dobbs has it nailed down pat.


He's 'on a mission' and, IMO, not very objective about it. How often
does he point out that unemployment figures are at historic lows despite
'out sourcing'? Not to mention all the jobs that get 'in sourced' from
over there.

I suspect what's eventually going to happen is what happened to all
those 'great ideas' various pundits back in the 80's wanted us to copy
from the 'Japanese Model'. Their economy has been near stagnant for a
decade under the burden of those 'great ideas', and they're trying to
figure out how to 'fix' them, while we've seen sustained growth despite
the bumps.

The problem is we keep getting beat about the head and shoulders
weathering the rest of the world flailing through their free trade
education.


You're correct but I guess it's just kind of nice to see someone hanging
out the window screaming:

"I'm mad as hell and I'm just not going to take it anymore".

Loved that part and I'll bet even more 'real' people followed suit than in
the movie. hehe.

His politics were all screwed up but it was fun anyway.


Right away I realized they probably cost about 5 bucks to make.
Labor included. So, why in hell would I give some f**king company
$139.00 for them much less $189.00. Most brand name computers have
bottom end componets and sell at a high end price. Why should I
give a company the high end price for it. Point? You go with
statements like "The average user wouldn't know the difference
between a bottom end or top end CPU". That is irrelavent. The
fact of the matter is that most people buying a computer have
access to a person or persons who do know. They just don't bother
to ask. Our society is so totally complacent that most times we
don't even bother to ask someone who *does* have the knowledge.
That is the difference in our generations my friend. I don't
pretend to know whether complacency is the correct way or the
incorrect way. I just know it's not my way. Being consistently
screwed and enjoying it less and less just doesn't seem sensible to
me and is something I definitely do not enjoy or accept.




Btw, the answer to your question 'why should I pay' such and such is,
that's what the market will bear; and all the arguments about 'cost to
make', mark up, or whatever, are irrelevant.



Hmmmm, I wonder how difficult it is to make your own shoes and boots?
;-)


Hehe. I don't know but I bet you'd appreciate the 'store bought' price
more if you tried ;)


I don't know about that. Humanity is pretty stuborn *and* adaptable when
it has to be. ^^


Well, true. But what I had in mind is that things are usually a bit more
'involved' than they, at first, appear so while it looks like a 'simple'
matter of cut this, hammer that, bingo... shoe... it ends up being cut
this 14 times before you figure out how to do it right, ruin 10 of them
with bent nails... etc... Then ya finally get a shoe... which falls apart
2 weeks later because, hmmm... supposed to use a special thread there, are
ya? hehe

It's all still 'simple', of course. It's just not knowing what all the
'simple' things are that gets ya.

Knowing what all those 'simple' things ARE is called a 'skill'. Something
that many of our youth, unfortunately, don't want to learn anymore.

Ed




.

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