Re: XP Pre Installed

JAD rattled our cages with this on Wednesday 4/19/2006


"H. Seldon" <hseldon0@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.04.19.21.14.03.659544@xxxxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:04:40 +0100, Steve wrote:

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 07:03:06 +0200, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Just a follow up...
I have been in computers virtually since they started (I am an early
retired electronics engineer) and sweeping statements like "Believe me, HP
builds sh*t as I imagine the rest of junk weasels do as well" mean nothing
and are unfounded !

You know, I believe it's truly so. Opinions are like assholes, everyone
has one.

including yours, nostalgia and reflection vs comparison of which company
puts out the better junk. its all about market share, price, and replacement
possibilities. The average user wouldn't know the difference between a
bottom end or top end CPU. They don't know what a CPU is or what it does.
They see dell that has the same # of 'G's' on the hard driver (yes driver)
as the HP for 100.- less and comes with a bigger TV thing ..CRT LCD? huh?

It's much like the line from the movie Armageddon that goes something like:

"Did you know we are sitting on ............. a thing with 270,000 loose parts that was built by the lowest bidder."

That's the story concerning almost everything that one buys today.
Call my blurb nostalgia if you wish, call it reflection if you wish but I just don't understand, as an old man, how today's population so readily adopts the attitude "that's the best we can expect" or "that's just the way it is".
For example, even when items meet good quality control standards, we still get screwed. I like to hike as a passtime. Just today I was looking at a pair of "brand name" hiking boots. They were on sale for $139.00 regular $189.00. Good deal you might say. Grab it while you can you might say. Then I happened to look at the tag inside. It said 'MADE IN CHINA'. Right away I realized they probably cost about 5 bucks to make. Labor included. So, why in hell would I give some f**king company $139.00 for them much less $189.00. Most brand name computers have bottom end componets and sell at a high end price. Why should I give a company the high end price for it. Point? You go with statements like "The average user wouldn't know the difference between a bottom end or top end CPU". That is irrelavent. The fact of the matter is that most people buying a computer have access to a person or persons who do know. They just don't bother to ask. Our society is so totally complacent that most times we don't even bother to ask someone who *does* have the knowledge. That is the difference in our generations my friend. I don't pretend to know whether complacency is the correct way or the incorrect way. I just know it's not my way. Being consistently screwed and enjoying it less and less just doesn't seem sensible to me and is something I definitely do not enjoy or accept.


I too have been in electrical engineering since the mid 1960s.
In that time I've probably used more HP test equipment and desktop
computers systems than most people have seen. So, if you are or were an
engineer, take a look inside a present day HP *desktop* and then tell me
in all honesty that it is *not* junk. I have the Pavilion flavor and
inside the system consists of bottom of the line components from the power
supply to the mainboard to the flimsily constructed DVD/CD writer and
bottom end HDD to the fans that cool the system.

That is *not* what HP used to be before its *only* criteria became
"bottom line", HP indeed made some of the finest equipment on the planet.
My statement is not unfounded and I'm sure both Hewlett and Packard
would flip in their graves if they could what now bears the name HP.

I build all my own Desktops (too many to recall the exact
number) but
> my
first real computer was a 486 Packard-Bell, where you HAD to buy ANY
upgrades from them (at rediculous prices) as it was built non-standard
parts. After that I built all my own desktops to MY specifications.

Until I purchased my present HP computer, I had built all my own desktop
computers as well and I invariably used high quality components. Not
necessarily the fastest but always reliable high quality stuff. Further,
with prudent shopping habits I could always manage to do this
economically.
So what does that have to do with anything when talking
about ready-made machines other than price vs quality and performance.



I have (about 6 weeks ago) bought a HP notebook based on the Pentium 4
3.4GHz, and it is excellent, both in build quality and hardware used. It
uses STANDARD hardware/software from major manufacturers. Building
notebooks, although not impossible, is difficult, as getting the parts
is a real pain, that is why I decided brand buying was the best option.

This means nothing. I was referring strictly to desktops and if I left a
different impression, I apologize.


To call all branded Desktops 'a piece of sh*t' is rubbish, as they fill
a niche in the market for people who haven't either the time or ability
to build there own (did you not think of that ?) and if they were such
rubbish, would HP, Dell etc survive in these days of consumer rights and
choice etc. I think not !!!!!

They survive for the very reasons you state. However, that in no way
excuses the *junk* they build. That just means they build junk to sell to
people who either don't have the time or don't have the necessary
knowledge to build one. Consumer rights usually means jack *** unless
you have the financial means to pursue those opaque rights and choice
again depends on the degree of knowledge or belief in the reputation
regarding the supplier. Neither of which guarantees the supply of a
satisfactory product. If you are an engineer, I'm certain you would
agree with that assessment.


They aren't for me, and obviously not you either, but LOTS of people
want/need them.

And they *deserve* to get what they are promised when they purchase. That
was my expectation from HP and that was *my* mistake. That however does
not allow any provider of goods or services to abrogate their real and
moral obligations to those who purchase their product and if they were
still living, I am certain that both Hewlett and Packard would agree with
that assessment.

I have used PDA's for years too (namely 6 Sony and 4 HP ones) which are
good quaity and depite LOTS of use have never let me down !

Just my thoughts ....

Steve

H. Seldon writes:
I will never do it again even if I have to pay twice as much for the
bits and pieces as I would for another Brand Name piece of ***.
Believe me, HP builds *** as I imagine the rest of junk weasels do as
well.

HP used to build good machines. My old HP Vectra XU is built like a
tank, and I've seen other HP machines built similarly. But Carly
Fiorina changed all that, and now they are all apparently junk.

HP, like most major brands, also likes to put a lot of "custom" hardware
and software in, such as special BIOS stuff or even custom motherboards
(not sure if HP still spends the R&D to build their own motherboards,
though). This means that you never really know what you are getting.
It'll work fine as long as you never touch the OS or hardware
configuration, but if you ever want to change or repair or upgrade
something ... watch out! Sometimes you can't even install standard
software without screwing up the non-standard software in the machine.

--
____________________________________________________________
Kubuntu, try it and Windows will be a thing of the past.
(Ubuntu is a humanist ideology from Sub-Saharan Africa)

H. Seldon

I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence.
There's a knob called "Brightness" but it doesn't work.

--
_____________________________________________________________

That's all,


"Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

< Colin Sautar >


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