Re: Free brain teaser - Networking ?

Systemrecovery wrote:
David Maynard wrote:


The worst is the subnetting because both 1 and 2 must be on for 3 to get to
the internet.


thank you very much
i've made 4 passes at a config..im pretty patient..gave each try time
for the dust to settle...Im doing somethng wrong...

each time I think i am setup...i lose my network far as file sharing

I was only talking about the internet side and file sharing is a bit different because it's probably being handled by netbios over TCP/IP on your machines.


--

whats the odds of seeing a flow chart...
i think visuals would help me alot right now...lol

Flow chart of what? The machines?

INET <---> DSL router <---> machine 1(ICS) <---> machine 2 <---> machine 3

Now, machine 1 has ICS and that's NAT routing protocol but, clearly, machine 2 has to route for machine 3's internet requests to make it to machine 1.


im dying to know! I can't help but feel it's very simple..
i have just never seen the relationship in numbers..

in theory, I could put the right numbers in and all 3 machines could
run for 5 more years as is....I hate to jump out of the boat 5 feet
from the shore and drop 50 bucks on a router..

you say its doable...

Yes and, in fact, I have a local network that was originally a more complex version of what you're trying to do, but I also have a domain server.


I have 1st nic set to auto - the dsl router gives it an ip, subnet and
gateway
(it is ICS enabled)

Yes, but you're confusing the mask as being 'the subnet'. The mask defines which bits in the IP address are used to define the subnet so both make it up. I.E. 255.255.255.0 says
^^^^^^^^^^^
these are the subnet

.... and the 0 says those bits are used to specify which individual computer on that subnet

Put another way, any bit with a 1 in the mask is part of the subnet address and the bits with a 0 in the mask define individual computers on that net.

So take a NIC address of 192.168.0.38 with the mask 255.255.255.255.0

192.168.0. is the subnet with up to 254 computers on it (256-2 since 0 and 255 are not usable as an individual computer IP)

Someone with a NIC having a 192.168.34.38 IP and the same 255.255.255.0 mask is a net of 192.168.34. It's not 'the same subnet' even though the mask is the same because it's the combination of applying the mask to the IP address that defines the subnet.

Now, let's say that your local LAN is operating in the 192.168.0. range, as above, and you want further subnets. Make the mask 255.255.255.192 (for all NICs on that subnet, btw)

Now, if you turn the decimal number 192 into binary so you can see the bits that comes out as 1100 0000 (try it in Windows calculator, scientific mode. Enter 192 in decimal and then switch to binary).

Okay, We have two more bits defining the nets, the 11 of the 1100 0000 (along with the original 255.255.255), and two binary bits have 4 possible states, 00, 01, 10, and 11 so the original range of 192.168.0 is now 4 subnets of 192.168.0.0, 192.168.0.64, 192.168.0.128, and 192.168.0.192. Notice the first 3 digits are the same because those are the ones in the 255.255.255. fields. The 'new' ones are from the 11 in the 1100 000 bottom 192 digit and are 'sub' to the original since all the other bits are the same.

The bits still 0 in the mask, I.E. 00 0000, are left for individual computer addresses and that's 6 bits for 64 on each subnet, minus the 0 and 63 numbers (the first and last are unusable again) leaving 62 for actual computer and router addresses.

Note, we could use ANY two bits in that bottom digit but using the top two means the addresses are consecutive and easier to deal with. I.E. 1 thru 62 on the first subnet, 65 thru 126 on the second subnet, etc. but, to illustrate, a 255.255.255.2 mask results in 4 subnets also because it defines the same number of bits for the subnet address. But, since the bottom two bits are used for the subnet address our computer addresses come out a bit confusing, for me anyway, so I use the upper bits.


will I be manually configuring all 5 cards?
what dem numbers look like?

The first NIC to the DSL router can remain DHCP but all the others need to be manually set because ICS defaults to 'one' net, not subnetted and, so, will not assign things the way you want them.

If you wanted to use DHCP you'd have to set up a real server, like I did, and turn on (and configure, of course) it's DHCP server but you don't have enough computers for that to be of much use because your router, and the server, need to be manually set anyway and that's dern near your whole set up. Only machine 3 could get DHCP from machine 2 and it's hardly worth all that configuring for one machine.


can you type it out for me...lol

please...
--

see, the dsl router gives the 1st card a 255.255.255.0 subnet
you say give 2nd card at 2nd pc, a sep subnet...so I see 2 subnets on
the second machine one on the left one on the right...you say..I can't
have the same subnet where two nics are on the same pc, but the 1st pc
has 2 nics and the same subnet...

No, machine 1 has two different subnets (or should), it's just that the mask might be the same on both of them. I don't know what subnet your DSL router is using but you said the ICS NIC IP was 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0, which is the normal router address for a 192.168.1 subnet (mask 255.255.255.0). It's DHCP expects to give computers on your local LAN addresses in the range of 192.168.1.2 thru 192.168.1.254 (also with a 255.255.255.0 mask), but you've only got one computer, besides the ICS router, connected to that network, machine 2.


another question I had, is about dhcp server (if im saying that right)
domain host controller protocol...(it can assign an ip? right)...

Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol. It can assign IPs and a lot of other things but it has to know what to do. In the case of the DSL router and ICS it's configured, by the manufacturer, for what they imagine will be the most common configuration but it doesn't magically figure out just whatever you would like to do.

Your DSL router might let you configure it, like mine does, but that won't do you a heck of a lot of good because DHCP doesn't go across routers. Well, it can if the router knows how to DHCP relay but that's another story and I doubt your router can be set for subnets anyway.


all 3 computers are dhcp enabled right now...(or if I do a manual
configure across the board..then dhcp servers are just idle?) im
wondering if I can turn them off

I'd leave the DSL and machine 1's NIC to it as they are now. It's ICS, and onward, that needs to be manually set up.

You'd subnet. 192 is a nice number because it's 'more than you need' and, so, allows for 'the future'.

You need to activate Routing and Remote Access on machine 2. I'm assuming it's O.S. is Win2K Server because non server Windows doesn't route so, if you have a non server Windows O.S. you'd need to get third party router software.

You'd then setup the IPs and masks, which means changing the mask for ICS too. Might as well keep the IP range it default assigned so your subnets would be

192.168.1.0/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.128/255.255.255.192
192.168.1.192/255.255.255.192

Keep the first subnet on the ICS NIC, since it's already there, so you just change the mask on machine 1's ICS NIC to 255.255.255.192. Then manually set the first NIC on machine 2 to 192.168.1.2/255.255.255.192 so it's on the same subnet.

So far we have

DSL < as is > machine 1: 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.192<----
--> 192.168.1.2/255.255.255.192 :machine 2

That's all there is for subnet 1.

Then the second NIC on machine 2 is for subnet 2 so make that the 192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 range. And the router NIC address for that is normally the first address, which is 192.168.1.65/255.255.255.192. Now, machine 3 is on *that* subnet so make it's NIC 192.168.1.66/255.255.255.192, the next address.

So, continuing on with out network diagram we have

machine 2: 192.168.1.65/255.255.255.192 <----
---> 192.168.1.66/255.255.255.192 :machine 3

The missing NIC assignments are the default gateways and that's the router NIC for each subnet. So, going from 3 toward DSL, the default gateway for machine 3 is 192.168.1.65, the machine 2 NIC (so things get forwarded). The default gateway for machine 2's NIC going to machine 1 is machine 1's NIC address, 192.168.1.1. In the reverse direction, going from machine 1 to 3, the default gateway for machine 1's ICS NIC is machine 2's NIC, 192.168.1.2 and machine 2's NIC going to machine 3 is 192.168.1.66 (although that last one doesn't matter because there's no routing past machine 3, yet)

Then in Routing and Remote Access for machine 2 you define the routes, which are

192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 ---> 192.168.0.65 (NIC2) (send subnet 2 stuff out onto subnet 2, via NIC2, so machines on that subnet will see it)
and
192.168.1.64/255.255.255.192 ---> 192.168.0.2 (NIC1) (send subnet 1 stuff out onto subnet 1, via NIC1, so machines on that subnet will see it)

and the magic grab all, which we do for things that don't match a defined route (is what the 0.0.0.0 means)...

0.0.0.0 ---> 192.168.0.1 (direct to the ICS router address so it goes to that NIC on machine 1, who's ICS grabs it and sends it out over the internet where, hopefully, something out there knows what the heck to do with it)

Well...Thank you for any considerations here...im having fun..


Dern shame machine 2 isn't either WinXP or Win2k3 server because, if it was, you could just bridge the two NICs on machine 2 and make it look like 1 network, in which case it would all work 'plug and go' like you imagine it should, DHCP and all. When bridged the machine just pukes back out on the other NIC anything it sees, in either direction, so it's sorta like an internal 'wire' between them. Not very efficient for a large network, since everything goes everywhere whether needed or not using up bandwidth, but ideal for a small home LAN.

.

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