Re: Open Sky Roaster

"Jack Denver" <nunuvyer@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Y5GdnQgburrox27ZnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Local laws may vary but it's entirely possible everywhere to legally
install a properly rated propane driven appliance (with the tanks
outdoors) inside a building. In many rural areas that do not have natural
gas service, propane is used as a natural gas substitute, and the kitchen
range, hot water heater, dryer, home furnace, etc. can all be run off of
outdoor propane tanks (either buried or above ground) - usually only a
simple change of orifices is needed to go from one to the other. Modern
codes may require a gas detector, but these are cheap and are wise to have
in any event (unlike nat gas, propane is heavier than air and tends to
accumulate in low spots, waiting for a spark to set it off, so leaking
propane is even more dangerous than leaking gas). You're right that they
may have to be hard plumbed with metal rather than rubber hoses, but this
is no big deal, especially now that there are continuous systems (bendable
stainless or copper tubing) and flex connectors that are much easier to
work with than the old fashioned threaded iron pipe. Of course if you have
nat. gas available, this is almost always more economical on a per btu
basis. Something like an outdoor gas grill or outdoor burner that is not
rated for indoor use can't be used indoor regardless of whether you feed
it gas or propane and venting is yet another issue.

The point is that whatever barriers existed to installing your roaster
indoors had nothing to do with propane v. natural gas, really, though
you're right that a legal indoor gas OR propane installation is not a
trivial thing compared to an outdoor appliance where the requirements are
quite relaxed.



I don't think that I stated or even implied that the issue was the choice of
fuel, propane vs. natural gas. The issue is the use of a tank that is rated
for outside use (like a standard bbq cylindar) attached with a rubber hose
with the tank and hose (or just the hose) being inside a building while the
appliance is being operated. Ed's installation (from what you are saying)
would also be inadvisable because an appliance (the grill) which is intended
to be used outside is instead being used inside a building. My roaster is
designed to be used inside; afterall, these things are bought by commercial
roasters and are used inside of their facilities.

The issue originally came up in my case when I had the smoke hood installed;
my original intention was to get a longer rubber hose so that with the new
location of the roaster, further into the garage under the hood, I would
have enough hose to locate the tank outside. The old hose length would have
been marginal for this and I wanted the tank far enough away from the
building that I wouldn't be paranoid about it. I tried to buy a longer hose
and ended up getting referred to a propane supplier in a nearby town. When
I explained the intended use he refused to sell me a hose and told me that
what I was proposing to do was illegal and dangerous. The more I explained
to him such things as the fact that it would only be used a few hours a
month, etc. etc. etc., the more adament he was and the more he insisted that
I contact a plumber. The plumber dismissed out of hand my original idea of
plumbing in the roaster with rigid pipe going out to propane cylinders as
both too expensive and silly in a house with a natural gas line a few feet
away from the roaster (my garage has a natural gas heater in it to heat the
garage in winter). When I bought the new burner for the roaster I paid
several dollars extra to get an orifice/jet for natural gas burned at high
altitude (where I live) to have around in the event that I might ultimately
convert the roaster over, so I already had the part and it was easy to swap
out as part of the plumb in job of the roaster to natural gas.

The safest and cheapest route for almost any home roaster contemplating bbq
roasting would be to get it set up for outside use.

ken












"Ken Fox" <morceaudemerdeThisMerdeGoes@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4lgtj5F1rn3kU1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
"Craig Andrews" <alt.coffee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Ken, I'm sure you've seen Ed Needhams website Homeroaster? He's
addressed the problem of venting with a fitted smoke manifold/stack
flue/damper vented through his workshop wall.
http://www.homeroaster.com/5pound2.html
http://www.homeroaster.com/P4210981.JPG
Craig.

Craig,

No doubt this is a solution for someone who is handy and can do ***
metal work. For most people, however, constructing something like this
will be beyond their abilities and having someone else do it would be
cost-prohibitive.

What's more, if you look at Ed's pictures you will see he is running his
grill off of a propane tank, inside of an enclosed space (workshop,
garage). That is both potentially dangerous and at least where I live,
illegal. I did this with my roaster initially when it ran on propane,
although I had a very long propane hose and put the tank 15 feet away,
outside. Even so, I was informed that my setup was illegal in Idaho
where it is not allowed to operate any propane appliance off a hose in an
enclosed space. I'd bet that many other states have similar laws and
regulations. IF somehow there was an accident and a fire or damage
resulted, you can be pretty sure your insurance company won't cover it,
and your local fire marshall may start taking more interest in your home
roasting than you would like:-)

The solution I arrived at was to have the roaster permanently plumbed
into natural gas by a plumber, who required that the roaster cart's
wheels be removed, that the roaster be attached to the cart, and the cart
attached to the garage floor. Rest assured, this was not cheap. My
smoke hood was designed and installed by a friend who used to work in
HVAC; he charged me $300 which was probably about $10 or $15/hr. for his
time and labor, plus the *** metal place charged $300 for the hood and
metal backstop/wall fire protection. I'm sure an individual who paid to
have an exhaust system ala Ed's would pay quite a bit to have a
contractor put that in.

What I'm getting at is that if one wants to do this cost-effectively,
e.g. cheaply, the best solution is to roast outside where there aren't
any issues about using a propane tank nor any need to ventilate the
exhaust from the grill. Given that, my initial points about having a
small and high powered grill to work with seem to me to be the best and
most reasonably priced option.

ken






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