Re: {OT:} Why don't the oil companies bail out GM, Ford, Chrysler


"SMS" <scharf.steven@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:ge%Rk.7882$YU2.5244@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
C. E. White wrote:

It's rather amusing that Camry and Accord sell for so much less than a Taurus, yet they'll last for about twice as long.

You have absolutely nothing that would support this ridiculous claim. In fact, I see far more older US cars in my area than old Toyotas and Hondas.

What you see personally is of no value. You need to look at statistical data.

But you're right, "twice as long" I don't have data for. The data shows that of 1985-1989 vehicles still on the road in 2000, Toyota was at 66%, Ford was at 43.6%, Chevrolet was at 49.6%.

"http://www.desrosiers.ca/pdfs/2002/2002-4.pdf";

Interesting data, especially if you live in Canada, but unfortunately without knowing who purchased the original cars, how they were cared for, where they were purchased, how many miles they were driven, etc., etc. it is hard to see what it proves anything about the quality of the cars involved. It certainly doesn't prove that the average Camry or Accord lasts as long as the average Taurus. Do you suppose that the average buyer of a 1986 Ford was the same as the average buyer of a 1986 Toyota? And the data certainly says nothing about 2008 models of any of the cars. Best you can say is that the less than half of the Ford cars registered in Canda sometime between 1985 and 1989 were no longer registered in Canda in the year 2000. On the other hand over 66% of the Ford trucks sold in Canada over the same period were still on the road in 2000. I can't see were Ford cars of that era used parts that were less reliable or less well made than Ford trucks. I can believe the buyers and vehicle usage were completely different. It could be that the Ford cars were purchased by people on average who either drove the cars a lot more miles per year, or were accident prone, or who liked to buy new cars and therefore did not maintain there cars properly or whatever. Or maybe they drove their Fords in the winter, and their Toyotas only in the summer becasue they were not safe on winter roads - who knows. One factor that favors certain foreign brands is the resale value placed on some foreign cars. If your Toyota is supposedly worth $2000, then a $1000 repair might not lead you to send it to the junk yard. If your used Ford is only supposedly worth $1000, you would probably junk if it needed a repair that cost the same. There are so many factor that play into how long a vehicle continues to show up as registered, that I don't think this particular statistic means much in term of expected life for any given person. I've owned Fords, Mazdas, Saturns, Plymouths, Toyotas, Nissans, Audis and others. I've never bought into the idea that one particular brand was consistently better than another. There are some things I can find to like in almost any vehicle and some things I hate. Of cars I personally owned, the worst was a Toyota Cressida and the best was the Sable, although the Fusion will soon pass it in my estimation unless I am greatly fooled. Based on the experience of myself, family members, and close friends, there are some brands I won't buy - (basically anything from VW or anything designed and made in England - but that is nothing these days). Both of my Sisters and my SO now drive late model RAV4s. They all are happy with there choice. If I wanted a small SUV, the RAV would probably not be my choice, but there is certainly nothing major wrong with them (biggest negatives are cramped front seats, weird control layout, excessive wind and road noise, bad seats in the base model / biggest positives are good gas mileage, better price than a CR-V, projected resale value).

If you can find a similar study, please share it.

I wish I could look at the RL Polk database... and at the same time average miles per year for different vehicles, and maintenance records, and spare parts sales, and vehicle demographics, etc., etc. I've always assumed that the various car companies have a good handle on how their vehicles last relative to the competition, yet except for Chevy claiming their trucks are the longest lasting most dependable trucks, you never see anyone make any reliability or longevity claims. Your data supports the Chevy truck claims, but I also thought they were meaningless since I have no idea of vehicle maintenance or usage. However, since you seem to think Toyota are so wonderful, how does it figure that Toyota trucks in your reference are less reliable than any domestic brand? And do you really think VW trucks are the most reliable / longest lasting trucks?

Longevity is a very complicated issue. My 1986 Sable that a co-worker bought and wrecked was running fine at the time he wrecked it, but since it was more than 14 years old, with over 220k miles, the insurance company was not willing to pay to repair even the relatively minor damage it sustained in the accident. My Sister's wrecked Escape was drivable and could have easily been repaired. However when the insurance company offered her more than book value to total the vehicle, she took the money and bough a new vehicle (I would have also - even if it was repaired perfectly, it would have been branded as salvaged). So how would you figure the life of that vehicle - 7.5 years? Clearly the vehicle was good for many more years and miles but I am sure it was worth more for parts than as a repaired vehicle branded as salvaged. The little old lady neighbor of mine with the crappy Corolla will probably keep it for the rest of her life. I doubt it will ever make it to 75k miles, yet you probably would claim it is a good example of Toyota longevity. I'd say it was a POS. Likewise for my older sister's old Civic. As far as I am concerned, it should already be in the junk yard, yet some guy is out there driving it around, probably telling people how great it is. I am just glad I don't know him and he can't blame me for selling him the rolling POS. It should be in the junk yard.

Ed


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