Re: 2003 Highlaner V6 ---> Propane?

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:49:50 GMT, franz fripplfrappl <bogus@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:15:32 +0000, Retired VIP wrote:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008 12:55:07 GMT, franz fripplfrappl <bogus@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

A 2003 Highlander V6 here.

Can this vehicle be converted to run on propane?

Yes

If so, can it be dual fuel as in gas and propane?

Yes

What's involved in the conversion?

Reprogram the engine's computer, replace the fuel injectors with ones
that are designed to handle gaseous fuels instead of liquid. Add a
vaporizer to the fuel system. Maybe more.

You can not do it on a computer controlled car, IIRC the cutoff date
is 1983 - without submitting the car to the EPA for the usual round of
smog testing procedures, just like a new car for sale. $50,000
minimum to get it certified.

There are companies paying the fees, getting the certs in order and
offering aftermarket conversions on new cars. But NO KITS, no way to
convert older cars - except those in the 1982 and earlier range, back
to the carburetor era.

Conversions are normally offered for current model-year new cars
only. Because if they carry over the "old" systems they have to pay
the renewal fee again ($50K) to keep that certification in effect.

If you have a corporate fleet of 1,500 M.Y. 2005 trucks you want to
convert to CNG it's worth it for the conversion company to pay that
$50K renewal fee, they can pass it on to you and spread it out over
all the vehicles. For one car or truck, fuhgeddaboudit.

Does propane give better mileage?

No. Propane has less heat energy per unit of volume than gasoline. It
will give better mileage than natural gas fueled vehicles but worse than
gasoline.

Propane does burn a LOT cleaner than gasoline and won't carbon up
combustion chambers like gasoline. The engine oil will remain cleaner
so there will be much less engine wear and you can go longer between oil
changes.

Why would you want to do this? It would be very expensive. In addition
to the changes you would need to make to the engine, you would need a
much larger fuel tank to be able to go the same distance you go now on
gasoline. After paying road tax, your cost per mile would be higher
than it is now using gasoline. The fuel is stored as a liquid, under
pressure, and would be very dangerous in case you have a wreak.

LPG (Propane) is in heavy steel tanks, and has a long proven history
of being a lot safer in a wreck than gasoline. CNG in steel tanks is
safe. LNG in a dual-wall vacuum steel tank is still somewhat safer
than gasoline tanks in a wreck.

You have to T-bone it right in the tank, and even then you just
break off a valve and cause a controllable fire. It would take a hell
of a hit to rupture the tank, one that would kill the passengers from
the impact.

CNG using lightweight Aluminum tanks with a Fiberglass/Kevlar and
polyester resin overwrap are the ones you REALLY have to worry about
in a wreck or fire.

We had a Los Angeles SuperShuttle airport van with the lightweight
Glass wrapped tanks mounted behind the axle where the gasoline tank
usually goes. The van was rear ended, taken to an area body shop and
the body fixed - But they did not have the fuel tanks inspected after
the wreck as is legally mandated.

Somebody wasn't thinking... Lots of somebodies - the owners of the
van service should have remembered this, if nobody else.

The driver got the van out of the body shop and drove it to a public
fill station to go to work - and as he was filling it to 3600 PSI one
of the tanks ruptured violently and the shrapnel killed him.

More than likely the Fiberglass overwrap layer got damaged, but we
will never know for sure. It held during the wreck, and while the
bodywork was being repaired - but if it was down to a few hundred PSI
that would be normal...

A LOT of drawbacks with very few advantages.

Jack

Thanks. If a conversion would have increased mileage and/or lowered fuel
costs, it would be worth it. I see no advantages.

Natural Gas has a /much/ lower operating cost at the moment - it's
supposed to be $2 a gallon gasoline equivalent at the retail fill
stations, and much lower for the actual gas costs if you fill at home.

But your car is going to have a much shorter range - they rate the
tanks at 10-gallon to 20-gallon gasoline equivalent.

And if you install an at-home "Phill" compressor (www.fuelmaker.com)
the small one only fills at 0.42 gallons gasoline equivalent per hour.
The large one is 0.6(something) GGE per hour. Plan on it being hooked
up for a solid 8 hours a night, every night, with that little
compressor humming away.

--<< Bruce >>--

.

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