Re: GM fuel cell SUV 300 miles on one fill

I can see the future now, all cars run on hydrogen. The highways will be
filled to capacity 24/7 with millions of non-polluting cars and millions of
those greed and white 'Air Products bottle' trucks, trying to get the
stations with the hydrogen and my AP stock a dividends will sour LOL

mike

"Must be Me" <jackj^remove^180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:kgg953histkico25kius2qe8gml8lh7ndf@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 22 May 2007 09:19:46 -0500, "DH" <dh@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Must be Me" <jackj^remove^180@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:r3t5531kpgg7i1qi2n7h4sm1tp68d5bn58@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 21 May 2007 21:29:50 GMT, "GO Mavs" <GoMavs@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070521/BIZ/305210003/1076

interesting but doesnt Hydrogen take a good amount of energy to create?


There are two common sources of hydrogen right now, fossil fuels and
water. Both sources have major problems that will have to be solved
before hydrogen can be a completive fuel source.

In the case of water, you actually have to put more energy into the
system than you can get out so where is the incentive to use it?

If SPV were cheap enough, cracking water to make hydrogen would be cheap
enough. The hydrogen is then more energy-dense and portable. That would
be
the incentive. People are very interested in cheap SPV. Nuclear power
could also be used to provide the energy.

It really doesn't make any difference how you get the electricity, you
still use more energy getting the hydrogen from water than that
hydrogen can give you. If you take a pound of hydrogen and a pound of
natural gas and compare the energy output of each, you will find that
natural gas gives almost 3 times more energy than hydrogen. Hence,
hydrogen isn't very energy-dense unless you liquefy it. Then you
REALLY have some storage problems.

Fossil fuels such as natural gas, coal and oil do take high energy
inputs to recover the hydrogen but with the use of catalysts, you can
get more energy out than you put in. But, what do you do with the
carbon and sulfur that are left after you take the hydrogen out of the
hydro-carbon fuel? And why not just burn the hydrocarbon as fuel
instead of just using one component of that fuel.

Hydrogen is much less energy dense than fossil fuel. The atoms of
hydrogen are the smallest in nature and will migrate through the steel
walls of storage tanks, so it is almost impossible to store it for
long periods.

I believe you are thinking of helium. Hydrogen is the lightest but
helium's
electron shells are the tightest, so the atom's dimensions are smaller.
Hydrogen, I think, will always bond into H2 as a gas, so the molecules of
hydrogen will be considerably larger than H atoms alone. Helium does not
bond into He2.

No, I'm thinking of hydrogen. Check out this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen
and this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium


I'm not going to attempt a high school chemistry lesson here but,
although you are right about hydrogen forming a molecule under normal
pressures and temperatures, it still will migrate through your storage
vessel's walls. If that wasn't true, there would be just a few very
large plants making hydrogen gas instead of making it on-site where
ever it's needed. There is a very large demand for hydrogen gas and
it would be more economical to make it in a few places and transport
it to where it is needed.

Jack


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