Re: Sienna 06 roof penetrations - wire airbag locations?


"joe" <nonspam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:ckbla21tfqht0q44ms2u8kh11mh9joo4i7@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:45:31 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:


"joe" <nonspam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:svnja21m2bu644vavqec1igqh0hsdbjkq3@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:09:12 -0500, "Ray O"
<rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:


"joe" <nonspam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:3tnia2tomp370agn2ki6gb3g4kpn3ep8vc@xxxxxxxxxx

<snipped>


Toyota charges money for access to their web site because Toyota is in
the
business of making money.

So is Netscape and many others - whose products are available at no
charge.

From time to time one has to wonder about certain business models -
including that of Toyota.

BTW. It is a three volume set + a fourth wiring diagrams - total price
$508.51 +Tax etc.

j


AFAIK, most commercial web sites make support themselves or make money
from
either advertising or subscription fees. There is no outside advertising
on
techinfo.toyota.com.

Although Toyota's factory service manuals are available to consumers, they
are not intended for consumer use. They are intended for use by
professional with access to professional diagnostic tools and equipment,
and
someone with limited automotive knowledge will not have an easy time
following them. The information in the factory service manuals is very
complete, including voltages for every pin for every ECU and for every
sensor, transmission test port pressures, ring-to-piston groove
clearances,
plastigauge specs for crankshaft bearing clearances, steering rack
preload,
differential collar crush depth, etc. This is the type of information
that
the average consumer would not understand, much less attempt a repair on.
There are several aftermarket automotive repair manuals available for
consumer use that include information that the consumer is more likely to
be
interested in, like how to do a brake job. These books often explain the
principles behind the designs, while professional manuals do not explain
principles of basic systems like brakes or ignition systems because they
assume that the professional technician already knows that basic stuff.

This is akin to someone without a medical background trying to diagnose
and
treat an ailment from a medical textbook instead of using consumer health
guides.

With all due respect to both you great eloquence and demonstrated
knowledge and skill here - IMHO you have just outlined the problem!

As I look at the people in a shop I see none that would appear to be
even inclined to pick up a copy of the newspaper. None would ever
take the time to read manuals or even admit to reading manuals. Each
person would have at least 10 excuses from not enough time to manuals
being no good. Been there done that with the GM crowd in a large
dealership. As I visited (in person) and talked (phone and email) to
many car dealers I was impressed by just how uniformly similar they
all were in everything they did and said and the manner in which they
conducted business. I can think of no other business that would fit
such a uniform pattern.


The complexity of modern vehicles makes it difficult, if not impossible, to
diagnose an unusual condition without referring to either the printed or
computrized repair manual for specifications.

I have visited around 100 Toyota dealerships and closely analyzed the
service operations of around 60. The analysis includes spending a week
watching how customers are handled; watching how service work is dispatched,
performed, and QC'd; analyzing customer pay repair and maintenance repair
orders and warranty repair orders; inventorying special service tools,
repair manuals; and technical service bulletins; inventorying required shop
equipment; and analyzing production capacity vs. units in operation;
reviewing technician certifications; and analyzing service satisfaction
indices. Many of the dealerships I visisted in small towns carried more
than one franchise, and the other franchises benefitted from my
recommendations. I do not know if this is still the case, but when I was
doing these dealership analysis, no other automakers offered a similar
service to their dealerships.

I've also dealt with customers who had repairs or maintenance performed at
independent service facilities.

From that experience, for my personal vehicles, I would not have maintenance
or repairs performed at any of the muffler chains; I would get only tires at
a tire facility; and I would get tires or batteries at Sears. Independent
facilities (including so-call import or specific brand specialists) are a
hit-or-miss proposition - I would only use ones that emply ASE Master
Certified Technicians and are AAA approved.

My impression with shops that claim to be Toyota specialists are that the
owners are ex-Toyota technicians who had current knowledge at one time but
lose that currency the longer they are independent because they cannot
attend Toyota technical classes. I fall into that category because I have
not attended a Toyota technical class in over 12 years. There are some
excellent independent shops, and they are probably OK for routine
maintenance and basic repairs but advanced diagnostics on a modern vehicle
may be beyond the scope of their abilities or special service tool
inventories.

Like a restaurant that gives preferential treatment to a regualar patron,
when it comes to going "the extra mile" if it is questionable whether a
repair is warrantable, or if a vehicle needs an out-of-warranty repair,
dealership and factory service personnel are much more likely to give the
benefit of the doubt to a customer who has his vehicle regularly serviced at
a Toyota dealership. For example, if you need a radiator replacement one
week after the warranty has expired and you have never been back to the
dealership except for warranty repairs, you are much less likely to receive
goodwill assistance than someone who has had all of his maintenance
performed at the dealership. I have never seen an independent shop provide
a free repair to a customer whose warranty has just expired.

This type of information is a perfect application for 'expert
programs' where all the vitals are entered by an attendant and all
the answers or further questions come out the other end instantly.

GM has no such system. Does Toyota? This is also about the only way
that "baby-talk" can be smoked out of written materials.

j


If you think that dealership service personnel NEED "expert programs" in
order to make sense of written manuals, then what makes you think that an
independent shop without access to factory training is going to be any
better?

GM, Ford, Toyota, and I assume the other major automakers do have access to
computerized diagnostic systems, but they all require trained technicians to
take advantage of them.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


.

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